Average kindergartners are not spelling or writing. All his other GE's place him at or above first grade.
Why in the world are they suggesting a K repeat?
I don't know anything about Waldorf, so sorry if I am a bit ignorant about their policies.
But does it make sense to keep a kid in K who is already achieving at and above first grade? Because of his age? I don't like educational decisions made for no other reason than for age, but that's just me. I don't understand it.

Sorry if I'm missing something, I can be a bit dense.

Neato

I had the same thought, 'Neato. In fact, I scoffed aloud at the computer screen.

It never ceases to amaze me when schools want GT kids to repeat a grade for reasons that seem so patently stupid.

Not to be blunt or anything... Sorry, rough week, so I'm in a cut-to-the-chase mood.

If I am not mistaken, The Waldorf school doctrine is very age driven. For example, they believe that children should not learn to read until they have lost their baby teeth (6 or 7 years old).

Before we get too far off topic, let's go back to the VCI/PRI type split question. I know it's fairly common, but our only split goes the other way, and I can't really speak from experience.

Thoughts?

Not sure what you were looking for Dottie. All my kids have VCI>PRI with varying splits from <10 to 20 points. Since I don't have any experience with the other direction, I'm not sure that what that would look like, but for us, the VCI showed up as very early reading (two of mine self-taught fluent reading at two), and extensive desire to explore the world through reading -- encyclopedias, dictionaries, science fact books, sports almanacs -- anything with facts in it. They were never big into puzzles. I remember thinking filling out the DYS application that I had nothing to say about puzzle questions. They played with US map puzzles at 3 or 4, but focused on memorizing all the states and capitals and relationships and seemed quite uninterested in the puzzle part.

J

My DD has VCI=PRI+25. Gratified, your description fits her to a T. She started reading at 3 (begged me to teach her), loves books, maps, etc. She is not very interested in puzzles. Her PRI was probably depressed a little due to visual/motor problems affecting things like the block design. Her math achievement is higher that what you would expect from her PRI.

Hi Cathy --

I'm so glad you said "[h]er math achievement is higher that what you would expect from her PRI" so I can address a question that's been bugging me.

I've been trying to figure out what the relationship between math AT and PRI is supposed to be?? I guess I had a naive assumption that those things went together, but that doesn't seem to be the case for my kids. The two early readers with the biggest VCI/PRI splits have ceiling scores on math AT and a few year subject acceleration in math. They have a general obsession with the topic causing square root dinner conversations, mental calculations of the number of seconds before the bus comes, etc. But PRI and math relate somehow, don't they? I just had this same "conversation" earlier this week offlist, but I guess I don't get what PRI tests. I'm fairly certain, based on our experience, that it doesn't have much to do with math achievement, at least in the younger years.

J

Per Amy's first post, her child scored very low (1st percentile) on some visual-perceptual test, and the score most similar to PRI is below the mean, with a subtest of 5. This is the area in which my kids all excel, so it's not my expertise.

With the MUCH higher knowledge (VCI-ish) score, that's quite a gap. It's 47 points (+3 standard deviations) on paper. I know others have more advice on things like visual remediation and other VMI type skills, that can hopefully throw in some thoughts.

Sometimes splits just reflect different strengths, but others can indicate problems that may be treated, or at least strengthened.

I think that issue needs to be addressed along with the best educational placement for his very obvious strengths. I didn't want to digress down the "What's wrong with that school" path without trying at least to refocus!

Ah, J snuck a post in there on me! I too started out my test data process assuming that PRI and math ability went together. This was absolutely the case for my oldest, whose scores were highest in those two areas on both the WISC and the AT.

DS seems more even keeled, but definitely has math peaks. His PRI did not reflect that, but we had other "issues" with that testing.

FWIW, I think PRI strengths are more likely to pan out in advanced maths, as well as really helping out kids who might be weaker in verbal areas. My DD11 is like that, although in time, her verbal areas are really developing considerably.

I'm finding too that kids who are lop-sided tend to fair better overall if their verbal skills are the stronger of the two. I guess there's something to be said for "talking" your way through a problem.

I have a friend whose son tests very average and even low in AT (LD issues at play). However....he has a rocket high PRI with a 19 in Matrix Reasoning! He's only 9, but I do look forward in seeing how his "profile" pans out with time.

I'm not sure the experts even really know for sure what all these different tests are saying.

Oh, and keep in mind the HUGE difference between a PRI that's lower than VCI but still quite good and a PRI that is in the average and below range!

(I'm thinking DD13's "great" PRI is probably at the same level as J's -10-20 point scores, ROFL!)