I have a 5 year old that is currently enrolled in the Waldorf School. We are trying to figure out if this is the best spot for him as he has been assessed with low scores on MVPT-3 (less than 1%). At the same time, he completed the KABC II & the Woodcock Johnson Test of Achievement III and seemed to do well although I can't find any comparative scores for a child his age. Here's what we have:

MPI: 111
FCI: 121
Sequential Index: 115
Simulatneous Index: 94
Learning Index: 120
Knowledge Index: 141

Woodcock Johnson
Letter-Word Identification: 168
Reading Fluency: no score due to age
Story Recall: 112
Understanding Directions: 119
Calculation: no score due to age
Math Fluency: no score due to age
Spelling: 106
Writing Fluency: no score due to age
Passage Comprehension: 142
Applied Problems: 118
Writing Samples: 121

He's had no academic instruction at this point. We'd like to make sure we have him in an environment that will close the gaps between his strong and weak points.

Any suggestions on how to interpret the results and any experience with Waldorf vs. more traditional education options?

Thanks!

Hi Amy! Unfortunately I think you are going to have to give this one a little time before you get "answers". He's clearly very bright, with loads of potential, with what appears to be some very verbal strengths. I wouldn't necessarily call the other areas "weaknesses" though at age 5.

VERY few people seem to be familiar with the K-ABC-II, but two of mine had it, and one was just 5. However, as luck would have it, he was NOT given the "knowledge" subtests, so I only have scores for the other areas. The simultaneous index is very perceptual, visual-spatial type puzzle problems. His score there while lower, is still within average.

Did you get any GE's for the WJ? I'm particularly curious about the Letter-Word score. With the GE, I can see exactly what he was doing on the test papers themselves.

What is the MVPT? I don't know that one, and am on my way out the door.

But welcome!!!

Oh, and in case you don't know the very basics, scores on both tests of 100 are dead average (mean), with a standard deviation of 15. This means that scores from 85-115 are pretty much average, but scores in either direction that exceed that range are a little more unusual. So you can see that the 168 is quite high (+4 standard deviations) but that is one of the subtests that can inflate just a bit in the early years.

Hope that helps....now I'm really on my way out!

Ah, I came home and googled MVPT-3, and realize it's a visual perception test. Problems in this area will certainly affect the IQ testing, particularly in that simultaneious processing area. However, his score there of 94 is just under the 50th percentile, and nowhere near as problematic as the 1st percentile!

Do you per chance have the subtest break down (scores in the 1-19 range)? Perhaps that would be more telling. Visual perception problems are unfortunately not my "expertise", but lots of folks on these boards know more than me in that area.

Dottie:

Thanks so much for your replies -- you are a wealth of knowledge!

Here's what I have for the WJ test:

Letter-Word ID: 4.8
ReadingFluency: 2.2
Story Recall: 1.8
Understanding Directions: 1.4
Calculation: n/a
Math Fluency: n/a
Spelling: K.4
Writing Fluency: n/a
Passage Comp: 2.1
Applied Problems: 1.4
Writing Samples: K.9

On the KABC II subtests:
Number Recall: 12
Word Order: 13

Conceptual Thinking: 10
Triangles: 12
Pattern Reasoning: 5

Atlantis: 14
Rebus: 13

Expressive Vocabulary: 17
Riddles: 17

Interestingly, the tests that they were unable to score measured Owen's writing abilities which he hasn't even started yet -- Waldorf has a non-academic kindergarten and doesn't even introduce letters and numbers until the first grade.

Amy

Um...you do know he can read, right? His reading scores are actually quite high. He was reading some pretty impressive words there at that GE4.8 level. And even though they didn't score his fluency, his GE there suggests he's fairly fluent.

The two subtests under "knowledge" do measure what is referred to as "crystalized intelligence" (what a kid knows), and his score there is very high as well, easily in the gifted range despite the lower "full scale". Despite the lower spatial scores, and in light of possible indentified problems there, this is a very gifted child.

It is interesting too that on that one low index (simultaneous), only the one test (pattern reasoning) is extremely low (5). The other two are easily average.

I'm not sure how to advise you further. Does he enjoy reading? The Waldorf school and philosophy might not be the best thing for his ability level.

It's too bad he was too young for math scores. You might consider retesting him once he is 6 (or later).

I lost sight of your original question. Is it for placement next year? Who did the MVPT? Were their followup recommendations from that? He does have a good sized gap from his crystalized scores to his visual-spatial type ones, and that could be meaningful.

Oh, and for someone else who might be able to chime in with some thoughts, this kid has what shows up as a VCI (high) to PRI (low) split on the WISC-IV.

Funny! Of course, I know he can read. He taught himself at about 3 1/2. The MVPT testing was done by an OT for the school district.

We are trying to figure out whether we should leave him at Waldorf so he can catch up a bit on the motor issues. The challenge is it's great for balancing the intellectual, physical and emotional capabilities of the child. Academically speaking, I don't think it will be engaging enough for our child.

Interestingly, they have recommended that he stay in Kindergarten for another year due to his age -- Waldorf wants all kids to be 7 in the first grade.

Just checking Amy! You didn't mention that in the first post, and it seems the school hasn't even taught him letters yet!!!! I thought maybe I was missing something.

I've read some things about Waldorf, and personally don't see how they can work for GT children. On the other hand, he doesn't "need" the academics, and could possibly thrive with whatever growth curve he's on at home there, benefiting more fully from a less structured program. What are your other options?

Other options would be the public school, LI School for the Gifted or Montessori - that's really it.