I agree completely. What happened to my son's attitude and behavior were giganormous, lightning-bolt-sized signs that things were very, very bad. If he'd been whining because he wanted to play video games, I'd have told him to suck it up and get his coat on because the bus was coming.

Interesting that you make the statement, has always been unhappy with school, even in pre-k.

I have two very gifted, very intelligent daughters.
First daughter loved her first pre-school. Then we moved. The pre-school we sent her to in our new town was supposed to be the best and oh so experienced with above average kids. She was sad from the first day. I won't go into it, but I had a bad interaction with her teacher and my gut told me to pull her immediately. I re-enrolled her in her old pre-school and drove 40 minutes each day and she loved it. The next year I found a new pre-school in town which she also loved. K wasn't perfect, but she was reasonably happy.
She's had some sticking points in school, but luckily the administration has responded and tried to meet her needs and she is relatively happy now.
Youngest daughter had a great year in 3 year old pre-school. The next year was awful, she had a different teacher who didn't "get" her and was bored out of her mind. I pulled her mid year and placed her at our church pre-school. Again, miserable experience. Kindergarten year and she hates it. The teacher is not a good fit and certainly doesn't get her. The school is making an effort but I just am not sure it will ever be a good fit for her.
Thus, my location in purgatory. One is in heaven, one in, you know, the other place. That put's me uncomfortably in the middle.
There is not a whole lot of difference between them in terms of intelligence. It's their personalities that are so different.
We will try with the school for next year, but I am prepared to homeschool if it doesn't work out. Only the child suffers in a situation where the school environment is not a good fit.

Hmmm. My kids have done OK pre-k & K - partly because I worked like heck to find a better situation than I had. DD11's public school years (1-5 now) have been mixed, depending on teacher & available accommodations. DS5 is still in K and I'm trying not to get too anxious about next year.

But - my personal experience was not good, starting in pre-k. Which is why I wanted to make two points:

1) not all kids let parents know how miserable they are

and

2) kids can come to the conclusion that you, the parent, are unable to change the situation.

Once they reach that conclusion they may be less likely to share information. If it's not going to be acted on, sharing their pain may only amount to loss of face for the child. At least, this is sort of how I saw it at times, as a kid.

Complaining wasn't just a matter of losing face for me. I had a terrible time fitting in during grade school which really seemed to distress my mother. If I had complained, it would have been like confirming to her that something was wrong with me--and I really did believe that something was wrong with me! I had no idea there were other kids like me until I started attending a GT school in 8th grade.

I think those are excellent points, kcab.

I read somewhere (Deborah Ruf's book, maybe?) that the best thing you can do when a child has a bad school fit is SOMETHING. Even if what you do doesn't actually help, at least it telegraphs to the child that you understand, that you care, and that you have the power and desire to make changes. These are the things that matter most to a child. These are the things that give a child the hope to hang in there and to trust you.

YMMV...

Here's a brief summary of my DS5 and his journey to this point. Hopefully your DH can get something out of our struggles.

6 months old-4.5 years old: I worked full time and my son was at a daycare/preschool. He moved to the preschool class at 3.5 years old. When he entered that room he was a very happy, popular boy. The teachers all loved him, the other kids loved him and he never got in trouble. After about 8 months in that room the teacher told me that he was very advanced and he has already mastered everything she hoped to teach him for K. He was teaching himself to read and he loved puzzles and math problems. On the other hand he was also becoming a huge behavior problem. He was quickly losing friends and he would talk back and throw fits whenever they tried to give him a time out. IMO, they overused timeouts and it got to the point where he was spending at least an hour a morning outside the director's office and we were sending a communication book back and forth each day to discuss his behavior. My son was miserable. At home he was angry and the only thing that seem to make him happy and when we allowed him to learn in the evening. He begged for workbooks and math problems. We had him tested the following fall at 4.5 years old and he remained in the same preschool class (no K early entry in our district). His testing shocked us.

4.5-present: After the testing we decided to move him to a Montessori school for 3-6 year olds. It took a few months for him to settle in and my son is much happier. Is he working at his full academic potential right now? No, but he is a much happier child and barely has the same angry outburst and behavior issues we saw last year. This fall at age 5.5 he will stay at the school for the Extended Day program. I really hope that I can work with his teachers to keep him engaged as he is quickly going through the school's materials.

I have no idea what will be do for the fall of 2009. I get a little panicky thinking about it. There are no gifted or even private schools that accommodate gifted children near me.

Good points. My son had 2 fun preK years at a play-based preK. It has lots of animals, including horses, lots of outdoor play etc and DS enjoyed it. He had a horrible K year. The teacher didn't know the meaning of the word "differentiation." I was informed at Nov PT conference that he was ready for 1st grade. It was downhill from there. DS would cry most evenings in bed about school. He was withdrawn when he came home. We somehow made it through the year. It took a month into the summer to get my boy back, one who loved to learn. So, in September, for meet the teacher day, I told DS to be sure to tell me how he is feeling about school this year. His response? "Why? I did that last year and you couldn't do anything about it. Nothing changed." I could have cried. My son was learning that there is things in life that not even his parents have control over.

First grade was better. His teacher had a BS in science and had science stuff in the room. SHe did alot of projects in the class. They played alot of math games so while he didn't learn many new math concepts, the games were fun and reinforcing. The last 2months of school were hard. Since the advanced kids had been grouped with this teacher and they were done w/ everything for the year, I think the learning came to a halt and with it, DS's complaints increased.

In our school system, kids changed schools for grades 2-5. DS didn't get the teacher which from what I was told differentiates well. He got a teacher who is in her 3rd year. She is nice, has tried some things with DS (independent project w/ another science-talented kid; a battery kit to explore in class instead of math time and reading time; a few challenge math problems here and there) but he's been unhappy. For months, maybe 5 months, he has a stomach ache every morning or a headache or dizziness. He says "Why do I have to go to school if I don't learn anything? I waste my whole day at school." He constantly complains of never having enough time for things b/c he it at school for so long. He complains about not being able to do history with me b/c there just is no time. Plus, he lollygags w/ homework so that eats time as well. Homework has been a constant battle.

People and the psych tell me to enrich at home. Well, he is already enriched at home but now after being gone all day, he just wants to play when he's home.

With my son, he's not like most of the kids here, he's not light years ahead of his peers. When I looked at the Everyday math book, I thought if he could start in the last fourth of the book, he'd have been ok with it. But he's a thinker. It's my feeling that school is boring, partly b/c of things he already knows, but b/c of the lack of stimulating material. I don't think I'm explaining myself well.

I recounted a couple of conversations between my son and I to a teacher friend. She commented that if he's able to discuss books on that level, no wonder he's bored in class. He won't get that level of book or discussion at school.

WHile my son was advanced in math early - not to the extent of kids here - but quite advanced compared to his local peers, I've notice his love of math, playing with numbers, figuring things out on his own eroding. I don't know if it's the teacher or the curriculum (Everyday Math) or both. In several months, his 5yr old brother will probably be at the same level in math when initially DS was 2yrs ahead. He's been kept in a holding pattern I feel. I recently found out from DS that they are not practicing math facts. His mental math skills have completely eroded. I did Rightstart math with him his summer after K after the suggestion of a teacher friend. In K, he learned that math was boring and that he wasn't good at it. How could he conclude that he wasn't good at it when he was so far ahead of his peers? Well, he couldn't figure out things on his own so he felt he wasn't good at math. He blossomed with us doing math regularly at home. But during the school year, it's tough to keep it up especially after the baby was born last year. I had laid such a wonderful foundation for critical thinking and mental manipulation of numbers - and it seems it's all POOF. He needs reinforcement but to also be constantly moving forward.

I've talked to the teacher. SHe tells me that DS is so happy when he's at school. He comes in all smiles. DS loves the interaction with his friends so I"m sure he loves that part. He's been a bit happier recently b/c alot of things are going on at the school - non academic things. But it's hard to get him going in the morning. But when he was on vacation w/ his grandparents, they reported he jumped out bed, got dressed, got ready and came down ready to start the day. He also did not have one stomach ache or headache or dizziness and he also slept well.

I don't know..well, it's 2am, the baby woke me up and then once I started thinking about all this, I was too stressed to sleep...hence my long winded post....I'll probably delete most of it in the morning. I guess I'll try to sleep now......

Hey, Dazey--

Are you still up? It's only 11:30 here. I have a strong feeling that your son will become excited about math again. It is harder with two kids--I completely understand and I hope you are not feeling guilty. There is no way for you to provide the perfect enriching environment for all your kids at all times. That just isn't reality.

I hope you don't delete your post. It is very heartfelt and I think many of us have felt the same things.

Happy Mother's Day!

Cathy

I am prety certain that this is where DD4.5 is now. After all, I have been talking to the teacher several times in the year, but nothing has changed for DD. She has stoped to complain and pretends she likes the school. She copes by pretending she is someone else. She is such a good actress that the teacher is fully buying into it. She even pretends to me that she likes the school... however, while she is telling me that she likes the teacher and the school she looks away and her eye pupils contract significantly...

Now for you DH a little bit of history:

- at 2yr4m she started a preschool, two mornings a week. It was completely non academic. She took two months to adjust but then made a friend and started loving it and having great time there. However, at the same time, at home, she stoped completely doing puzzles, being interested in letters and wanted to watch TV all day long. I think this is where she got her visual problems.
She as well started to misbehave a little at home. Before that she was literally a 'saint'.
Preschool was not the only cause for this change (I was pregnant and burst quite easly) but it certainly contributed a lot to it.

- At 2y 11 m DS was born and DD was really miserable and acting out.

Then when she was 3yr+ she started to go all mornings to the preschool, thinking that since she liked so much it would do good to her... Oh boy, how wrong I was. This is when all the problems really started. First, the friend that she had made was not going all the mornings, only two (as DD initially). DD did not interact well with other kids (ages 2-4) at all, despite having a mega social character. I started to receive more and more complains about her and at home her behavior deteriorated horribly.

After a few months, we decided to pull her partially out and leaver her two mornings as initially. You should have seen her when I told her she did not need to go all mornings. She really looked like a heavy weight had been lifted from her shoulders and her behavior improved a lot that same day.

During the summer break we got her tested in Spain and the test results put her somewhere in the MG+ range - althought I have reasons to believe that she is in fact in the EG range- but that's another story.

Then at 4 she started a new Montessori School. It all looks very promising and the teacher seemed very receptive to all I had to tell her about DD.
However, the teacher did not get DD at all and complain that she wanted to activities that were 'too hard'.
Anyway, DD seemed to be doing better at the school . I had a conference with the teacher and she told me that. I talked to DD and she burts out that she was completely unhappy at the school. After that, DD started to complain a lot about the school and complaining about stomach aches all the mornings.
I talked again to the teacher, who then talked to DD who told her that all was very difficult,..
Long story short: The teacher obviously had no clue how to deal with DD and DD is coping with the stress by acting - not acting out - but pretending she is a little girl. She is now underachieving big time and having rampant perfectionism. She seems to have lost her love of learning - although, right now, after almost two weeks of holidays it has come back a little.

We are right now looking for solutions next year.

I am still thinking seriously to keep her home the rest of the year, but DH is quite oposed to the idea. After she is 5 she has to atend school, homeschooling is a criminal offense here...

Ah! and of course we try to do some afterschooling, trip to museums, etc but with an ... ehem.... quite active 21 months old DS is kind of hard.

Voila! That's all. Hope it was not too long...

I just wanted to add that I made DH read the whole threat and after we discussed the topic we decided together that keeping DD at home for the rest of the year was probably the 'less bad' solution.
I am going to have a chat first with DD about how she would feel if she stay at home and and if she agrees then ... we 'homeschool' for a few months

I will probably open a new topic, but now, I am going to have some rest, since bith DS and DD are sleeping ..... shhhhhhh