Hey, Dazey? Have you had your DS evaluated for GTness? I ask because I suspect his scores might surprise you. You keep saying things like "he's not like some of the kids around this forum," but the fact is, I would have said the same thing about my son last year, or even at the start of this year. Yet now that I've seen my DS's scores and have talked to a good psychologist who specializes in helping GT kids, and now that I'm teaching him so that I see every day just how easy many things are for him, I see that he *is* like many of the kids here.

YMMV, of course, because I don't know any more about your DS than you've told us. But your post just sounds so much like something I would have written before we had our DS evaluated. And last year my DS was performing only a little above grade level in math because that's all the higher the work was that he was being given to do. He was reading just a couple years above grade level because even I didn't provide books tht were harder than that. Now he's loving 8th grade geometry and reading at the 7th+ grade level because that's what he's being given to do.

What I'm saying is that kids who are thinkers, as you say, like yours and mine may be a lot smarter than they're allowed to show. Your DS's boredom and stomachaches say to me that this is what's happening to him. I suspect he's not just a little smarter, but a good bit.

If you haven't had him tested, I'd strongly recommend finding a person skilled in working with GT kids who can administer both an IQ test and an achievement test. I think it would be wise to get some more information about your son.

From what I've seen, people who hang out here and get something they need from this group probably have a child who is a peer of the kids here. Anyone is welcome, of course, but if the kids we talk about make sense to you, then yours is probably one of them. I hate to suggest GT denial to you, but I strongly suspect you may have a case of it...

Hang in there! If we can help, just say the word!

K-

Thank you, friends, for your help! And Happy Mother's Day to all of the moms!

CFK, fyi, I answered your question in a pm.

I'm interested to know if it helps your DH, questions. I hope it does!

Cathy - well I got into bed but laid awake for some time. THe toddler (whom I also refer to as the baby lol) has a stuffy nose she tossed and turned and moaned and cried out for a couple of hours. Also, I have a just turned 5yr old as well so 3 kids altogether.

I should also add that my 2nd grader is not DYS. He qualifies based on VCI of the WISCIV (well assuming my calc and Dottie's calcs are correct. I'm still waiting for psych to recalculate) and we haven't done achievement testing yet. At this point, given how the school has failed him, I scared to think how he might score on an achievement test. Teachers claim that they all even out ... well, yes, it's b/c they hold the bright kids back. NCLB - No CHild Leaps Beyond.

I asked him about school this morning. He said it was boring, I asked him to elaborate. He said b/c he gets the stuff at school over and over and over that I taught him at home. We talked about how he was ready and asking and needing to learn earlier than other kids. My DH and i are both scientists so science is in our blood just as a matter of living the day we talk about insects, nature, space, chemistry, physics etc. In the Spring, Summer and Fall we do a nature study at a local pond that we monitor weekly or more often. We watch the frogs mating, eggs being laid, eggs developing, hatching, tadpoles developing...well you get the picture. But every year these same topics are covered and more shallow than we've covered. Social studies has been new for him and he has enjoyed that but he says it doesn't compare to the history we were doing at home. He's really, really into WWII and loves Ancient History.

Anyhow, I asked him what does he think we should do. He suggested we talk to the Principal. Now I could not get this kid to even write a letter to the Principal asking for more balls for recess - I'm shocked he came up with that.

A friend of mine, her DS's preK teacher said that in all her 30yrs of teaching, she has never come across a child as advanced as her son. She went to our districts Parent meetings for rising Ker's. A mom asked about what if child knows everything the teacher had just listed. The teacher replied "Well then that kid needs to find something else to do." My friend met w/ the Principal after hearing that statement and the only thing she had to say was "the only kids that are bored in K are the ones that spend all day watching TV and playing video games. They just want to be constantly entertained." She wasn't even listening to her saying that her son had mastered those things 2yrs ago. Our district according to the GT coordinator has a No acceleration policy. Another friend was told, regarding grade skipping "Oh that's not done any longer." DS's current Principal (according to an inside source of mine) appears to be all-show and not much substance. THis is his first year as Principal, was VP. I really don't feel I'd get very far advocating. I think the feeling is that our district is the best in the county so they don't really need to do anything else. I hate the year to year changing teachers wondering if you're going to get *the* good one. And you don't know who the good one is until half way through the year until she find out he/she deals w/ your child. We had a good 3rd grade line-up (4/6 teachers were considered very good) but 2 of them has been moved to 5th grade while 2 of the poor 5th grade teachers have been moved down to 3rd. Lovely.

I'm thinking seriously of HSing DS in Fall.

Kriston - we cross-posted lol! I answered some of your questions I think regarding testing. I did after a 2month search find someone who specializes in GT kids. DS was given the WISCIV. The results were intersting and not at all what I expected. He came out very high in verbal (DYS numbers) and relatively low in PRI (127 or 129 depending on which of the numbers from the psych I believe) but I always had him pegged as a visual, mathy kid. But I read that algebraic thinking was more tied to VCI and geometric thinking to PRI and that makes sense w/ him. I have introduced him to very simple algebra and he got it instantly. I think he's the kid in the advanced math books who is good at figuring out the problem but slower w/ the computation (mostly b/c I think it takes energy and he's getting out of the habit of thinking). The psych hand scored the test and gave me those numbers to take home. He then computer scored it and got different numbers. I'm waiting for him to sort it out - that was over a month ago.

Anyhow, interesting comments from the testing. DS missed easy questions but would then perk up when the ? got harder and get those correct. He missed some easy block design puzzles but got the hardest problem right that psych said middle-high schoolers have trouble with. He got tired towards the end of testing and psych said he would have scored higher if he had split the testing into 2 sessions. Plus DS had soccer practice beforehand.

I'd like for him to take the WJIII to get a handle on LOG as Dottie has recommended but it will have to wait until summer as I'd like it to be done in more than one session. But I feel like, at this point, it might not be reflective of him since he's been held back by the school.

I'm reading this fascinating book by Dr. Ratey titled "Spark: the link between exercise and the brain." He talks about the school that implemented a radical PE program before school and how test scores have soared. Similar programs introduced at other schools, even low SES schools have had similar results. He then talks about the science of the brain. THe exercise induces BDNF which makes new neurons grow as well as strengthens connections in old neurons. Based on data in rodents, exercise primes the brain for learning. I thought - there you go, physiological explanation for dumbing down our kids.

"Gym class provides the brain with the right tools to learn, and the stimulation in the kids' classes encourages those newly developing cells to plug into the network..." I thought but what if the kid is not being stimulated in the classroom? Well, those neuronal connections are lost, those new neurons are lost. Not to mention that kids in our district only get PE 2x/week.

Anyhow, I don't want to go to far off topic. IF someone is interested in this book, I can break it out as a new topic.

Yup, sounds like GT denial to me. DYS numbers on verbal still counts, you know!

My DS has DYS numbers for PRI but not for verbal. Doesn't matter. One of the two is all it takes. And FWIW, his math scores were his lowest scores on the WJ-3 achievement test. He seems like a highly verbal kid, though his PRI would seem to indicate that math should be his strength. Also FWIW, our DS does seem to me to be a natural-born engineer, so when he gets to more conceptual math, I think he's going to really dig into it. He's not a big fan of computation either, just like your son. For that reason, homeschooling seems to be working pretty well for him. I'm able to do more conceptual stuff so as to keep his love for math learning alive. Killing that love before he gets to the higher math and engineering stuff is my greatest fear. I have my bad days, but I'm sure I'm doing better about keeping it alive than the public school did.

BTW, in an IQ test, boredom with the easy questions and interest in the hard ones is a good sign that you have an HG+ child on your hands. I'm just sayin'...

How your DS does on the WJ-3 might surprise you. When our DS took it, it certainly surprised me! If your son is doing algebra, he's *way* ahead of what our DS was doing, and still our DS scored at the DYS-level or above on 3 of the 4 broad areas that DYS looks at. Math was the only one he was below on, and he missed that by just one point, with no real effort on our part or the school's part to challenge him in math. (I'm verbal, so the verbal challenge stuff came naturally to me. Math...not so much!) Anyway, your son is young enough that just because he hasn't gotten it at school, it doesn't mean he's not getting it. You know?

I suspect you're going to have to admit that you're "one of us" sooner rather than later...

And thanks for the book rec. I'm a big believer in exercise, especially for kids!

What impresses me most about this thread is that someone got their DH to read it in its entirety! Congratulations Isa!

Ouch, Dazey, both for your DS's comment and because some of what you say reminds me of my DD's experiences. I hope you find a good solution for your DS for next year.

"Spark" sounds interesting. I've heard that kids who walk to school do better also - though I have no idea right now whether the source of that information was any good - I think I first heard it >10 yrs ago. DD's school only has PE once a week, but we walk to school as often as we can.

Today, I gave DS the surveys from "RE-forming Gifted Education." He did the subject ones. Of course, science came out nearly 4.0. Arts came out low motivation lol. He hasn't completed the reading one yet. Interestingly, math came out low motivation (2.31). I asked him about this and he said b/c there isn't anything to learn about math beyond addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. I wonder if he thinks this b/c for him, he's been doing this for 3yrs and haven't seen much of anything else at school. I really want to work on his math motivation this summer. He scored low (2.80) on "attitudes about school and learning" as well. The motivated about school range is 2.67-3.33 while highly motivated is 3.34-4.00. Not below the lowest score range but near the bottom of it.

All of this from a kid who used to ask me math problems before bed and make up his own math problems for himself. He was always very intense about learning new things.

the scales are 4 (always agree), 3 (usually agree), 2 (sometimes agree), and 1 (disagree).
Schools is the best place for me to learn. 2.
School excites me. Every day is great 2.

So I guess this begs the question - if he doesn't feel that school is the best place to learn, why is he spending 7hrs/day 5days/week there?


About denial....uh well I'd prefer to think I'm in denial rather than I'm right. Ha Ha Ha.

I think WJ will have to wait until summer when DS has more free time. Plus the psych was having knee problems and contemplating surgery. He's not returned my calls to regarding score recalc and scheduling the WISC and it's been a month already. I guess I'll leave another message this week.

Thanks for helping me to think through all this and being a sounding board as well as giving advice!

Never enough time Dazey

It's scary to see that sort of change, isn't it? I know that's how I felt. What's happening to him? This is not the boy I sent to school.



That was the same question we asked about our son. I don't mean to overidentify with your situation, but I know that when we started to see these things with our son, it became clear to us very fast that we were either going to have to advocate hard for some significant adaptations in the way the school taught him, or we were going to have to homeschool. Something had to change.

Keep talking if it's helping.