Do spoiled brats act like spoiled brats all the time or just around their parents? I'm trying to figure out Pud's behavior. He is perfectly well behaved around others (they never believe me when I tell them he's having a temper tantrum!) but seems to be out of control at home sometimes.

He seems unaffected by consequences or punishments or rewards. His tantrums tend to come with no warning. I found this quote from Lisa Rivero: "They [parents of gifted children] can also realize that the gifted child will challenge authority, may have little concern for the opinions of adults, and may be unaffected by the use of rewards and punishments. Knowing how to use these characteristics as strengths rather than weaknesses then becomes a large part of the unschooling challenge." The essay is at http://www.unschooling.com/library/essays/giftedchild.shtml. (Not that I agree with the unschooling, but I did like the essay.)

So, is this normal behavior? Is it a negative part of giftedness? Or, is my child just a spoiled brat?

I'm not even sure this behavior is gifted specific. I just spent the weekend camping with 6 families - 12 adults, 12 kids ranging in age from 3 to 7 (yes - it was a bit insane!). We all noticed that our kids at all age ranges reacted much more positively when someone else's parent asked them to do something rather than their own parent. Most of these kids were probably at least MG, but it just seems pretty standard behavior from what I've seen. And Pud is quite a little guy yet isn't he? This seemed especially prevalent from about 2 to around 4 with both my kids. DD just turned 4 and still loves to play mind games with me. She has regular extremely dramatic displays at home she'd never have anywhere else.

In fact, I remember a joke once of two moms who didn't know each other walking into a store at the same time. They made a pact-- I'll discipline your kid if you'll discipline mine! Much more effective when discipline comes from a stranger!

two points:
1) I am firmly convinced that the grown-up conspiracy is key to kid's development. Heh-heh, we're all that way and we're all watching!!!
2) I just went to my old (co-PG) friend's fiftieth birthday and was shocked by the admission by ALL our friend's parents that a) it was ridiculous that we had to go to school; b) they KNEW we were both uncontrollable but (they hoped) safe; and that; c) they all got us. It was a humbling experience. This was from life in a university/ research town from gt parents but still it highlighted the emotional vs. experienced life of pg kids.

It's my opinion that if a child throws tantrums at home but behaves appropriately outside the home, then he's just testing boundaries at home and you are responding appropriately. If he throws tantrums outside the home but not at home then it's more manipulative behavior and he knows how to work you, and get his own way-- not a good thing!

I like Alines comment about the grown-up conspiracy! I don't agree with the current philosophy that 'no one disciplines my kid but me'. There are too many kids with no respect for authority of any kind.

I agree with this whole post, OHG. Top to bottom.

I read somewhere that kids who behave at school, with the sitter, etc. but not with parents are just letting go where it's safe to let go. They save it all up for the people who love them because they know it's safe with their parents to let it out. It's a sign that they know they're loved. An annoying sign, certainly, but ultimately a good sign.

And I'm betting this will come as no surprise, but I'm one of those moms who has no problem telling kids at the playground to cut it out and/or straighten up. I don't think I've ever had a parent have a problem with it (they usually thank me), but if I did, I'd tell her to deal with her kids and then I wouldn't have to. Harumph.

So rock on, OHG!

My daughter must know that I love her a lot, because I am the only one she ever throws tantrums with!! Have to admit though that she is perfectly well behaved 99.9% of the time even with me.

Great question!

My DD(almost 4) only throws tantrums at home and she is the perfect angel at school. She is very whiny and emotional at home. It's to the point of pathetic. She must really know she is loved!

My DS5 was the opposite--not many fits at home but he got in trouble constantly with his preschool teachers. I think it was a lot of the power struggle with authority. Since changing schools we see a lot less of this power struggle since he is more challenged and he does witness a lot less social injustice in Montessori.

I agree with all that is said already - yes home is the comfort zone where it's ok to let it all hang out, if it's a healthy home! I do have a possible approach, you might have tried it - we just don't react and the tantrums seem to dry up pretty quick. This works well when you know the child is: fed recently, slept ok, not sick, etc. so there should be no physical reason they are losing control.
(And I don't think it's gifted kids only, although I do think they tend to take tantrums to amazing heights!!)

I'm voting along this line of thought.

It goes for adults also, when you think about it, I would hope that we are better behaved 'in public' than we are with our spouses and children.

One of the most disturbing things about DS11's elementary years is that he was well behaved at home and 'in trouble' at school!

Of course at school he clearly was manipulating and testing limits. 2nd grade teacher, with 20 years experience, told me that she would send him to his seat when he could no longer sit quietly with hands to himself 'for 5 minutes.' But she admitted that after a minute or two she would call him back to the group, because she couldn't stand for him to miss circle time. ((eye rolling)) DS was so litteral back then - I'm sure he thought of it as a victory.


((shrugs))
Grinity

How many of us are occasionally mean to our family in ways we'd never never be to others? If we can't let our real frustrations and anger be know to family, who can we express it to? I am guilty of it (and not proud). I'll melt down sometimes, but not in public. Isn't this the same that kids are doing. Maybe we need to train ourselves to remove ourselves before/at the onset of tantrum (go lie down or blog on the computer for a half hour to collect ourselves).

A friend read an article to me about how polite we are to strangers we accidently bump into compared to when we bump into a family member in the kitchen.

Well, kids are a different proposition entirely, they're still learning. As adults I think it's wise to think about how we treat our closest people. My husband has a habit of "letting go" on me since he couldn't possibly be unprofessional at work. I've asked him: "Would you ever say that/act that way towards one of your collegues or employees? Of course he always says no. "Wow, It's good to know you value someone you barely know over your wife". It usually gets the point across. I don't get why you would treat a loved one badly, just because you know they won't ditch you if you did. Doesn't knowing that make it less likely that you would take them for granted?

I totally agree in principle, incog. Maybe it's more of a communication problem where we need to "use our words" to express our frustration, exhaustion, or whatever, rather than let it build up and then discombobulate (is that even a word?). You're right--our loved ones deserve better, but I don't know anyone who doesn't have this problem (being harsher to family than strangers), at least sometimes.

One speaker at a gifted conference advised the audience that we should treat our children as we would our dear adult friend. She used the example of the friend coming over to tea and she accidentally spilled the tea Twice! To the kid we might flare in anger and say they need to be more careful--go get a towel to clean it up! To the dear adult friend we would probably say something like "You're a little off today, honey" while we mopped it up. I don't know it that's completely relevant to this thread, but I loved that part of her speech.

I don't think I agree with this. I don't think there's much point in flying off the handle, but I would definitely ask my kids to clean up after themselves. I would not ask that of a guest.

I really think gifted kids (at least mine) are more "difficult" than ND in that they want to boss everyone around (from very young age--ask my 6 yr old), think they know more than others (sometimes they do!), are frustrated or impatient, don't want to go through the courtesy/polite behavior as much as accomplish their goals. It is definitely harder to deal with HG kids--ask any teacher who has had them. They are not naturally compliant (in general).

I think the speaker's point was would we respond the same way (I definitely would have a stern voice to the child and not to the adult). She was saying that gifted kids are anachronistic, so treating them as an adult in some ways would help them.

I agree with Cathy in that we should respond to children differently than to adults. Our response to a child should be instructive. We need to ensure that the child understands why the drink was spilt, how to prevent it in the future, and how to properly respond to the situation (cleaning up the mess). What is often lacking is the respectful tone that we use with other adults.

The difficulty in responding to GT kids is that you are never quite certain of the mental age of the child at any given moment since it can fluctuate by about a decade in the span of two minutes.

I hear that, TS!!!

Yes, gifted kids can be adult-like in some ways. But they are not mini-adults. I do agree that family members should treat each other with respect. However, I don't think we should treat our young children as adult friends.

I think is so true. Sometimes I think I am talking to a teenager, and sometimes to a a three year old.

But I found that rules that apply to all of us, like if anyone forgets to say please, you say "freeze" and you have to count to 10 and then ask again. And if Daddy is using a mean tone then he has to do a "timeout". He doesn't really but the fact that we all have to follow the rules seems to work for her.

Ren

I agree, Ren. I mean, "Do as I say but not as I do" doesn't work for any kid, GT or no. I think requiring that everyone speak to others--regardless of age--with respect and compassion is important.

I do make the distinction that in matters of safety, I may be required to give orders. I don't say "Please don't walk out in front of that car." I say, "STOP! Don't you move!"

Also, if I have said "Please wash your hands for dinner" and no one moves, I get less and less polite with each successive request. If they're rude enough to ignore me, then I get more and more directive and less concerned about niceties in response. I'm okay with that, as well.

You just pointed out the difference between how I treat GS8 who lives with us and GD's 5 & 7 who just visit! Although I have been making an effort to make the GD's clean up after themselves more so GS8 can see they're all treated equally.


I also agree with Cathy A's statement:

I knew I liked you!

Back atcha!