We were recently considering changing school districts. My friend, also with a TAG child, says I'll never find the sort of communication and attention from the District Superintendent and the Asst Super as I [we] have now. I think she might be right.

I just wonder do those of you with kids in public school get frequent face time, phone calls and emails from your Dist Spr and Ass't Spr?

Here, they hold monthly TAG Meetings which we attend and the District is right away on the phone or email [even on evenings and weekends] to address questions or concerns. Is this standard practice for your school[s]?

RCM

I think that sounds like an ideal situation. I've only spoken the the Dist. Ass't Spr. once and I hear that is pretty rare. We have a large district with two high schools, maybe that's why they aren't as accessable.
We have a district supported gifted association that was started about 20 years ago by parents in order to improve gifted services. They were successful for starting an everyday pull-out for LA and Math, plus a district magnet program for kids who score in the top 2% that starts in 4th grade. The curriculum is supposed to be two years advanced. I've heard they only take kids who score 150 on the CogAt.
It sounds great in theory........
Unfortunately after looking into it, I've found it doesn't support HG+ kids as much as it seems it should.
I got a look at the textbook they use starting in 4th and DD8 has already done most of it in second grade.
The best support we have gotten is from the principal. The principals seem to have the freedom to be more flexible within their own school, so I would not move the girls to another school because I couldn't be sure they would get the same services they receive now. Realistically, I'm not sure they will stay in school, though, there is a good chance we will homeschool at some point.

Wow, monthly meetings? That sounds great! I wish we had that sort of involvement from anyone! (And I realize I'm going to have to be the one to start it, if there's any hope.)

But I do interact quite a bit with the "higher ups". We have a small district (3500-ish), and for as outside of the box as DS9's situation is, we've needed to move up the food chain to be heard. The #2 guy attends all of our meetings (and #1 doesn't really get involved with this sort of thing). I need that level of authority to make the changes we now have in place (radical acceleration).

We've gotten so much though at this point, that I dare not move, as imperfect as it still is.

I have never even met our superintendent or anyone higher up than the principal. But we have always gotten what our son needed just by chatting with the teacher and very occassionally the principal. In the 7 years DS has been in this district, there have been about 3 meetings for parents of GT kids which were a waste of my time (mostly a brief intro to the programs and then GT kids reading to us for "entertainment,"), so I am not yearning for more.

But, frankly, since the teachers have been great advocates for DS and because DS is good at letting the school know what he needs, I don't see this lack of contact as a negative. He continues to thrive at his school.

I think it varies a lot by school district, we are in a district of about 22,000, the board memebers, principals, dist spr, dist gate, etc... all have had a very open door and have been easy to reach. That does not mean that we agreed or the schools could even change, but they where good at trying to work within there program, budget...

acs, I really envy your situation. I really think that is the way to go, if possible.

I'm not too involved and generally ask for a meeting only if things are going badly and work needs to be done. When things were going badly in the past, I met with the principal privately, which led to a bigger meeting with many district level staff involved, and a lot of progress was made.

After that, we only had brief meetings with teachers or the GT teacher as needed to update GIEPs or discuss new issues. Some of that has been done by email without any official meetings. I've found all players to be responsive when needed, but I don't want to just touch base regularly when things are going fine. It's a huge hassle for me to be at the school during school hours, so I'm quite happy with less face time!

We are in a huge district. I have met the super and worked with people in the district office on health issues. I have never talked to them about GT issues.

I do have regular contact with the principal, in fact we just exchanged emails this week.

Thanks everyone. It seems that my friend is right, then. Ooo, I hate when she's right. <grin>

For some reason, and I'm not complaining, upper Admin seems very invested in our school's TAG program [and we're not even funded or mandated!]. Any time TAG parents have an idea or complaint they're all over it - "what can we do, how can we make TAG better ...?" I guess I just assumed that this would be standard if we changed districts.

I've never really had a major issue with our DS10 but we DO have a LOT of ideas on how to make programs better or invent programs or even run them; it's for stuff mainly to benefit all of the TAG students for the District.

We still need a bigger house. That hasn't changed. DS's musical gear needs it's own room[s] at this point. We're probably going to start looking for larger homes within our District.

Thanks everyone for your responses.

RCM

Welcome RPM9!

sounds like a district that has figured out the best way to 'make friends' with the Parent's of Gifteds. We can be a rough bunch - or a wonderful hardworking bunch - depending on how we are handled, no?

Can you 'build on' to your current home?

Smiles,
Grinity

I have written that I am involved with AGATE and via this conference, connecting with school administrators.

DH has started going to the District Community Education Council meetings (they were a subset of the school board a few years ago but now are just PTA type of things for the district as the mayor got rid of the school board in NYC). But the plan is for him to get to know people, schmooze and have someone to call if need be.

Ren

Excellent thought...we did just that fairly recently! It was a pain, but we do now have "more room".

We certainly can add-on but, being a small horse farm, we have acres of grass to maintain and a 600' driveway that'd we'd just rather not have to care for anymore.

We are very hard working for the District. I've seen how we are treated compared to other parents who just complain, moan and threaten and never roll up their sleeves to run a program. HUGE difference. We also tend to advocate for things that all TaG kids can benefit from. We're not at their door harping only about our kid. DS10 is an only child so we're very big on gathering together like minded peers for clubs, groups and activities.

The mayor got rid of the BOE? Is that legal? I guess it is. Sheesh. I wouldn't feel comfortable with that.

PTA and PTO groups are necessary, I suppose. I force myself to go to the meetings. We suffer through the "...is the school color royal blue or more of a navy blue" 30 minute discussions or they prattle on about which fund raiser candles smell best... I sit and bide my time wishing they'd discuss something, oh, I don't know, EDUCATIONAL! But they fund my programs and I'm very happy for that.

Do they have TaG or similar meetings in NYC? Those meetings are THE BEST! I love them. All District Admin is there as well as many of the BOE.

Do you have Charter Schools near you?

DS10 was nominated and accepted to go to the summer program at Claremont Prep School in NYC this year. Money is tight, not to mention the transportation logistics, so we had to pass on it.

I don't know what happened to my post, but I did respond.

Yes, the Bloomberg got rid of the BOE. Yes, there are Charter schools around, but they do not necessarily cater to the gifted. Sometimes, they cater to disabilties as there is more money there. In fact, some of the regular schools are creating CIT classes -- money for an extra teacher, but the emphasis is keeping the kids the same. If someone comes in reading chapter books, but by grade one, they will be in the same place. That was their answer, three times. I only asked twice, two different teachers. Another parent asked the principal since it seemed strange as this was the most popular schoo on the westside.

Ren

RPM9 - It's wonderful you have such an open and inviting school!!! YEAH!!! I know a someone whom it took 3yrs to get into the school to run an engineering course. Even after all his positive volunteering, the school sees him as an exception and still keeps parents out of the school. Programs can only be run by teachers who must be paid extra salary to do so which costs money compared to parent volunteers.

At my son's K-1 school, parents are not allowed on campus until after November. The last year my son was there, the Principal issued a mandate that siblings are not allowed in school for any reason. Her reason was that it spoils the lure of school for the siblings having become familiar with it already. The PTA had to ask to make the meetings an exception b/c if everyone had to get sitters to go to the PTA meetings, not many would show up. Not being able to bring a sibling keeps many parents out. I was nearly accosted by a teacher once b/c I was there for Parent PE day which is held in the gym and you enter the rear of the school so you don't walk down the halls. Well, DS's teacher asked me to take something to his classroom which is on the 1st floor, literally up the stairwell from the gym, and a teacher cornered me. I had to go flag down the teacher to say it was OK for me to be there. Now this is a well to do district - violence is NOT an issue - safety is not an issue - it's just one more way to make parents feel unwelcomed in the school. I mentioned running some science classes for the kids to the Principal and she rolled her eyes at me on the part about it being run by parents. GASP! OH NO not the parents!

I haven't read the other responses, but we get NOTHING like that and 40-50% of the kids at our school are tagged GT. I think because of this, they think all GT kids are the same and they don't need any special attention. I do agree, many MG kids do very well at our school. But more HG+ kids languish. My son hit the ceiling on their screener, but I've gotten nothing but acknowledgment of a poor fit from our teacher this year. I've actually seen teachers roll their eyes at the GT designation at school board meetings.

I personally think that kind of attention and acknowledgement is amazing! Enjoy!

Our district is pretty hostile to GT parents. They have information meetings where they explain the programs in rosy terms such as enrichment, curriculum extension, and programs begin in K. Then the parents gripe and you hear the real problems- no acceleration, GT teachers are too busy doing the older grades to do anything below 3rd, etc. Then the administrators explain the rules of funding (the principal chooses where to put the GT resources, don't blame the district, and all children need to do the curriculum because extension and enrichment are based on the curriculum. That happens once a year. I enjoy hearing the edu-speak terms in response to the parents concerns. But I don't feel like it's empowering to anybody. And I still don't understand how if 40% of the kids qualify for GT, it can really be GT, and how they can justify assigning only 1 GT teacher per school of 600 elem kids. What GT teacher can handle 240 kids?
Fortunately, our school principal has been wonderful. Parents are encouraged to volunteer at the school. In fact, our local private school that we expected to attend does not allow parents in except to help with lunch. They said it is the law that only certified teachers could do anything that's educational. Yet, the public school has parents doing drills, tutoring, handwriting, reading, chores, whatever the teachers and kids need, and to my knowledge, there have been no arrests. To me, having an open school where the administrators are not afraid of the parents is key. If the school can't trust me, I won't trust the school with my children.

We were told that the statistical average for children requiring an SLP [Student Learning Plan] was 1-2% and our District is right in that range, give or take.

[quote=master of none]Our district is pretty hostile to GT parents.

That statement just made me really sad. My gosh, our TaG kids are giving =gifts= to the schools with perfect ELA, Math... scores. Our kids are collectively propping up our districts!

I couldn't imagine being treated so poorly for just wanting to help! I hope things get better for you.

After reading here I realize that I really have no right to complain about our District.

It's all too common, I'm afraid. We have the same problem. In fact, our district is like Dazey's in that they're pretty much hostile to all parents, not just parents of GT kids, at least in terms of volunteering and being on school grounds. They want our money for the eternal fundraisers, but that's about it.

Turning away volunteers is the thing that gets me. How can any school do that? Surely there's SOMETHING you can find for willing and able parents to do, especially in a distract claiming 40% GT with no GT program until 4th grade, like ours! (The same percentage as kimck's, strangely...) I find this anti-volunteer trend to be foolish and really, really disconcerting!

This is anymonous right? :S

Speaking from a classroom teacher's personal point of view.... I don't see the gifted students in many public schools getting the type of learning I recieved when I was a student in school. I've heard the 40% -50% argument before, and there is some truth to students recieving a higher leveled instruction because most teachers aim for the class norm when planning. However, there is a lot more available assistence for students on the lower end of the bell curve (more small group, more materials, more instructional time, etc...) It seems as though the "gifted" students are left to fend for themselves at some schools.

I went to a private school when I was a child and it was not unusual to find a 4th grader taking 10th grade geometry. I think when parents bring this type of possibility to the school, it falls onto the regular classroom teacher's responsibility and this teacher is more concerned about students failing state tests because it is on their teaching record. Schools are more concerned about failing students because they can loose funding.

[quote=JustAMom]This is anymonous right? :S

Speaking from a classroom teacher's personal point of view.... I don't see the gifted students in many public schools getting the type of learning I recieved when I was a student in school. I've heard the 40% -50% argument before,

Does that mean that 40-50% of kids have an SLP or IEP? Wow, if that's the case.

DS10 is the only, what they call, SNAP kid in his grade level of about 100 kids at school. SNAP = Student Needs Assessment Profile which then requires an SLP [Student Learning Plan]. His teacher last year outright refused to recognize his SLP. But we're beyond that now. I think everyone has their worst teacher. That was last year for us.

[quote=Kriston]It's all too common, I'm afraid. We have the same problem. In fact, our district is like Dazey's in that they're pretty much hostile to all parents, not just parents of GT kids, at least in terms of volunteering and being on school grounds. They want our money for the eternal fundraisers, but that's about it.

Very, very sad. I just don't see how that could be productive for the school. Gather a group and start voting their budget down and see how things will turn to your favor. <evil grin>

Our school's PTO is starting a Volunteer Committee. The goal is to get parents, and even relatives or friends of parents, who are talented or skilled in a certain area to do one or two shot clinics for the kids; sort of like an extended or enhanced career day [altho it would be in the evening]. We have chefs, geologists, photographers, historians... Most folks can't commit to run an 8 or 12 week program but many can offer up a couple of hours once or twice to share what they do and what they know.

Thank goodness my school lets us do this sort of stuff.

Not exactly, one of my sons' school (where I heard this argument) serviced only the top 3% of the grade level with a pull out program.



I agree.

I can't speak for all schools quoting the ultra-high GT percentages, but in our 40% GT district, there are no SLPs or IEPs for *any* GT kids. Only kids with LDs or other disabilities get those. GT kids get the standard one-hour-once-a-week pullout starting in 4th grade (in math only). There is nothing individualized, unless the teacher chooses to differentiate. (Some do this reasonably well, some do absolutely nothing.)

In 5th grade, they add a language arts and science pullout once a week (or they used to--I haven't checked since they changed the first math pullout from 3rd to 4th this year, so that may be different now), and in 6th grade, the math pullout becomes their daily math class. But even the pullout is not differentiated for HG+ kids. They get the same material the MG kids get at the same time. Period.

It's pretty sad, really. And our elementary school is supposedly one of the more GT friendly schools in the district. They let one child grade skip--the only one in the district, apparently--so they clearly support all GT kids, right?

Yeah, right...

To be honest, even thinking about it depresses me.

We are in the same boat as Kriston - no GT students recieve SLP's or IEP's. Our school probably does teach slightly above grade level on average, but that top 3% could sure use something on top of that. We don't have any kind of pullout or regular differentiation K through 6 unless a parent volunteer organizes something. We use to have a full time GT specialist who was laid off with budget cuts a few years ago.

Well, if it's any bright spot at all...

My best friend's nephew, whom she has been caring for since his parents split up, was recently interviewed by the US Dept of Education. He was a highly gifted student who fell thru the cracks in school & dropped out. He was interviewed to find out how the school system let him down.

Here's to hoping that Special Education fully covers BOTH ends of the spectrum one day.

Hear, hear!

I can see why many of you are or are considering homeschooling. Honestly, if I hit that hostility myself, I'd probably home school children who were a perfect fit for the curriculum! We are very fortunate to have caring teachers who absolutely love a pair of hands willing to run a few hundred copies a week.

Sure I've had my administrative run-ins, but ultimately we have a plan that while not perfect, is fair for everyone involved.

I can imagine situations in which homeschooling would be so appealing if there was no assistance from the schools. In PA, the mandate is a nice place to fall back on, but you are still reliant on the good will of administrators because there isn't any real teeth in the law. Luckily, we found good will.

As someone who interviewed all over the country in the last year with HG schooling high on my priority list, there seemed to be massive differences in how states approach this. I interviewed multiple places in a state with separate, self-contained, HG programming in every place I looked. This state has a mandate with funding and clearly some commitment to GT kids, at least in theory. I looked at another state with a great education record in general and all I got was "all our kids are gifted." I looked at multiple districts in PA and some had programs worth having and some had "all our kids are gifted." There are states who seem committed to this, some states who seem indifferent who have districts committed to effective GT programming, and some areas I looked at who seemed to find the whole thing elitist and offensive.

What angered me about looking at various locations was how easy it seems to create decent programs in any medium sized city or above. I've seen small suburb locations with decent self-contained options for HG kids and massive school districts for major cities with nothing of any value. I don't believe that any fairly decent sized city can't run a self-contained HG classroom at little cost to the district, but there aren't that many of them in my research.

Whether the HG program we're moving to delivers or not is yet to be determined . . . . . , but I'm hoping and hoping . . . .

Our school has one Certified Gifted Teacher who is shared between 3 Districts. Better than nothing, I suppose.

Our District is also piloting Renzulli for 5th and 6th. Not sure what to think about that. At least it's something even if they're just pawning the brightest kids off to a glorified search engine. It's always going to be something like that for TaG kids; higher level books, magazines and games or a trumped up computer program. I shouldn't expect much actual meaningful human to kid contact at this point. That's why we're in the school doing what we do.

I hope to get an Odyssey of the Mind Team approved and funded. The problem with doing after school programs for SNAP [Student Needs Assessment Profile with a resultant SLP] is everyone wants in! It was an issue with Lego Engineering this past spring. A parent of a non-SNAP kid wanted her DS in. She told Admin she was putting her kid in the group and they could call the police to have him removed if they wanted to. She did and they didn't. It was an uncomfortable situation.

That's how desperate folks are for meaningful programs beyond teaching to the No Child Left Behind standard. No Child Left Behind and Gifted Kids Leveled Downward is more accurate. Pfft!

So is SNAP for gifted needs or others with needs as well? What was the objection for a non-SNAP child participating in Lego Engineering? I kind of have the mindset that if a child really wants to participate in an after-school extra curricular like that, why not? Personally, I wouldn't count out a kid who has the drive and desire to learn something new even if they miss the GT profile.
In this area we have several gifted programs through local colleges. All of them require evidence of giftedness. One in particular has a director who doesn't turn anyone away, even if the parent hasn't concretely established that the child is gifted. Her philosophy is that the child and/or parent will ultimately realize if the child is misplaced in the program. I think this is a fair way to handle admissions given that some people don't have the resources for testing and some teachers aren't fully competent at recognizing and referring gifted students within the school system.

SNAP is only for flagged, tested and gifted with an SLP in place. There were only 12 slots for Lego. We have so few SNAP kids that there was the need to backfill. That's fine.

However, we had twin autistic kids in Lego and they could =NOT= do the projects, not even close. As the builds became more difficult DH found that he had to spend the entire time with them instead of giving attention to the rest. The kids not only couldn't do the builds they were extremely disruptive and defiant. They would run out of the building into the parking lot. It was a scene. Misplacing kids in programs like this just burns out your volunteers. We're not willing to handle serious maladaptive behaviors. That is a task for a professional.

True, that is a pretty difficult situation. Not sure what else you could do with that one.

We didn't have any say in the criteria for choosing students for Lego. If we do it again we'll be SURE to set down a concrete framework for appropriate skills and behaviors.

I guess I didn't answer your question about the issue with having non-SNAP kids. There isn't an issue as long as the SNAP kids get their first and fair shot at attending. Without going into too many details - the parent who said that security will have to drag them out is one of those squeaky wheel parents. I told Admin that I didn't want any problems and that I'd make the room for the child but Admin said no to this individual. There's nothing I can do about that.

At or Chess Club we never turn anyone away because our supplies aren't as limited and specific as with Lego. We have 30 chess sets. If more than 60 kids show up they'll just hang out until a board opens up - hasn't happened yet. We usually get around 50 kids.

At =our= Chess Club, rather.