Squirt wrote:
"But, one of his goals is to learn division. I taught him the basic "it means how many times will x go into y" or "how many 4s does it take to make 12". He got that quickly and did 1 1/2 pages or problems. He now refuses to do any more problems. So, maybe we've met the goal and maybe we haven't. Maybe that's part of the problem - defining what the goals actually mean."

I see the same thing with my DS8. I call him the Concept Kid. He'll start figuring something out, learn it superficially, and is ready to move on. He doesn't want to put in the work to become proficient at it. This alarms me, perhaps unnecessarily. My thinking is generalizing this to when other things become harder - will he always give up and look for the next easy thing to do? Is this a result of lack of challenge? Is this typical 8yr old boy behavior and I'm making too much of it?

Something I read about HSing really struck me. For people who say they can't HS b/c of XYZ, some of those reasons are actually parenting difficulties...which in actuality, need to be dealt with regardless if the kid is in school or not. I think those difficulties can be more hidden b/c the kid is in school all day so there is reduced interaction between parent and child. But some of the difficulties I have w/ my son over getting school-type work done, I see it w/ chores, hygiene, etc ... it's not specific to school work.

Well, what constitutes "proficient"? I would argue that if he understands the concept and can do 1.5 pages of problems (or even a lot less than that, frankly!), he IS proficient at division!

I guess I see some of this as being a problem with us moms. Obviously you want to see a child do enough problems to show that he does, actually, understand what he's doing. But with an HG+ kid, that might not require very many problems.

You know, I had a heck of a time figuring out which level to start DS7 at in Singapore Math because he was teaching himself how to do the problems just from reading them on the placement test. So I ended up starting too low in the books, I think, because I was afraid that even though he passed the test, he didn't really "know" it. Well, the fact is, if he can teach himself to do it by reading the problems, it's probably too simple for him and he can pick up whatever he needs to know as he goes along. I think a big part of the math issues we had a the start of the year were because I was demanding too much drill on problems that were not conceptually challenging enough for DS7. I'm hoping you can learn from my mistake, as I'm trying to do.

ND kids, even MG kids, need so much more practice than these kids do, especially on arithmetic, which is pretty low-concept. Especially if you're homeschooling and can review whenever review is needed, I really don't think you have to worry so much about proficiency or have to drill very much at that basic level with kids this young. Very frequently, they just get it fast!

Please note that I'm not saying no drill ever. But in this context, I think that if a kid can do a whole bunch of division problems the first time out of the gate, he gets division. And maybe rather than fretting about whether he's doing enough work, maybe we should be taking it as a sign that he understands and we can move on.

P.S. You snuck that last post in on me, but I agree. One thing about homeschooling is that it throws parenting problems into much starker relief. Happily, it also gives you more opportunities to solve those problems.

I must say this is where Montessori worked really great for us. We taught him the concepts over the dinner and they eventually made him do the practice in school

I too am not really sure where to start with Singapore Math. We will probably spend first few months filling up gaps and skipping over the rest of the material.

"Proficient" is almost a legal term at this point, tied directly to the goals of NCLB. Each state defines those levels for the different subjects/grades. It's not typically mastery, but it's otherwise hard to define in a grade specific manner without the grade specific testing.

What I mean by proficient is say for example: He can 56-18 veerryy slowly mentally..... if he just did a few mental problems per day, he could do it more quickly and efficiently. But since he can do it, he's done with it. I try to make most things fun, but sometimes it's just quicker and easier if he'd just do it so we can move on to something else.

Also, even though our district uses Everyday Math which is supposed to be big on mental math and alternative strategies, his teacher drilled the standard algorithm. So whereas he used to see 56-18, way back when he was 6, and think 56-10-6-2, he does the standard trading algorithm mentally but he can't hold all the numbers in his head. I was taught the standard algorithms and always thought I was poor at mental math. Since doing Singapore Math and Rightstart, I'm so much better at mental math!

I have a post in my head to write up about Math, PS, HS, pushing, ASing (Afterschooling) but we're off to the lake to throw rocks so I'll try to get it written up tonight.

I was just throwing that out there for however it might factor in....each parent, especially home schooling ones will have to find that "comfort level" before moving on. The schools typically have a hard fast cut though in many areas.

Of course, for homeschoolers with HG+ kids, those "legal" proficiency requirements are pretty useless. I mean, the requirements for math and reading for 1st grade were--to DS7 and to me with my skewed-high view--almost pointless.

So maybe I should just expect DS7 to be proficient at a higher grade level, right?

Well, does a 6yo (with a working memory that's not all that spectacular) really have to know his times tables as fast as an ND 10yo? I voted no this year, even though his other math skills were around the 9-10yo level. When he's 10, he will be required to be as speedy with his math recall as a 10yo. (And I suspect he'll get there well before then on his own.)

I guess what I'm saying is that some things you go with grade-level proficiency and some with age-level, I think. This is, to me, one of the great beauties of homeschooling. To some extent, we parents get to decide what constitues proficiency, within certain limits.

But that flexible definition does make determining proficiency more complicated. In fact, at a homeschooling meeting for parents of HG+ kids that I recently attended, there was a rather interesting discussion about how we know if we're doing enough. Some were really worried that they were allowing their kids to underachieve.

I confess, when it comes to proficiencies, I tend to go with the "what's required for his age" level, and then we look for fun things that will challenge him and nurture his love of learning. I totally understand the fear that this approach would be encouraging DS7 to underachieve. I dabble in the fear myself from time to time. But it's hard for me to think that we're not doing enough when he's covering multiple years' worth of material in only a few months and loving it! I mean, if he's happy, he's learning, he's progressing, and he's making more than a year's worth of progress in a year's worth of time, I feel like we're doing just fine.

To me, if there's no joy in the work, then DS7's proficiency at something doesn't really matter. At 10 or 12 or so, I suspect I'll get more worried about filling in gaps. But he's 7! He's 3+ years ahead in pretty much all subjects! How many gaps could there be, really!?! Ya' know?

Sorry, Dottie! We crossposted, so you made the point I made about your post. I hate it when that happens!

Squirt,

In your position, I think I would let him read and do Aleks over the summer and then start 3rd at the private school in the fall.

The retired GT teacher doesn't know Pud. The school that tested him thinks he should skip. Pud wants to skip. Those are huge arguments in favor of skipping which are not negated by the GT teacher's opinion. You already tried letting the teacher challenge him. Didn't work. If your school's gifted program is like ours, don't hold your breath hoping for challenge there.

I understand your feelings of trepidation--just look back a few months to see how I wrestled with DS' skip. The skip has worked beautifully for DS so far. I'm sure it's not a permanent solution, but it's good for now.

Cathy