Welcome tygrlily!!!! About your son's WISCIV scores, did the WMI and/or PSI bring his FSIQ down? If so, did they calculate GAI?

I'd be interested to see the Perceptual Reasoning Index and the Verbal Comprehension Index for both your kids. I'm betting those are above the 130 score, and they should be noted for program inclusion. You could certainly make a case for it!

Yeah, my money's on the ceiling on 3 subtests, very superior on 2 and superior on 1 all landing under VCI/PRI (accounting for all 6 subtests there).

The 'magic scores' are so frustrating sometimes...you know your ds is truly gifted, but it just doesn't 'show' on a certain test...Our county has the same cut off but luckily also figures in reading level, outside work, etc. (I think this is partly because the test they administer is not quite so detailed as a WISC).
It added up to mostly looking at achievement rather than potential, which was another thing that irked me since I figured the whole point is to take a child with a lot of potential and help them achieve good or even great things.

Ah, my early morning pal! Hi Chris! My sister's school sounds very similar. I would love to see full blown IQ tests on her gang. They claim they have a very in-depth process, but sis feels it's a little shady behind the scenes, and there is no real IQ testing involved. The only hard data is the Cogat and grade level achievement testing. They DO have lower level cuts, and a sliding type program, which sounds good on paper for some of the more entry LOG's. It seems a bit lacking though for solid 130's and up.

Our school tries to use a hard fast 130, but I do know of cases where the VCI only was considerably higher and the kid was allowed in. I believe they should be, but I don't think it was an easy admit for any of those kids. I went to bat for a kid with a VCI of 130 on the nose, and after 2 full hours of "discussion", the big hammer came down and he was "not gifted".

I think our program is a bit secretive as well. All the kids are tested in 2nd grade. It used to be the CogAT but they changed the test this year. The parents are not told the kids are being tested, nor are the parents given the results (and they can't ask if they don't know it occurred). So if the child just missed the cutoff, the parent doesn't know they can go the portfolio route. I only found out b/c of a good relationship with the teacher (and I already knew about the program so I asked her early on if she felt DS would be a candidate, so she knew that I knew about it already) so I phoned about the results of the test. The GT coord certainly seemed shock I wanted the scores but she sent them. Before I asked for the scores, all she said was that son was not *creative* enough for the program. It was only after receiving the scores I found out that he was gifted in math. Now, I wonder how many kids came out this way and a) the parents didn't know about the test, b) the parents knew about it but didn't know enough to ask for the scores, c) knew about it, spoke w/ GT and all she said is "not creative enough," and the parent asked no further questions? I know of another parent where she found out from another parent whose DC got in so she inquired why her son wasn't in it. She went the portfolio route and got him in. It all just seems shady to me, secretive, and behind closed doors. I wonder if this is to keep all the parents, of course everyone think their child is gifted according to schools, from going the portfolio route?

"Secrecy" abounds....very few in our district know about the parental request option. In the recent past, I don't think we had any other "option". It's amazing we had kids in GT at all! I used to feel imposterish because I had DD13 tested at my request. She was a late admit in 5th, and I figured all the "really GT" kids had been teacher identified years ago. Only in hindsight did I realize that virtually everyone in her class had also been a parental request, many as second siblings with insider info. Way back when, we used to have a semi-teacher identified process that started in 1st. I never confirmed, but was very suspicious at one point that the 1st grade "enrichment" teacher actually coached those kids on taking the WISC-III!

DD13 didn't start in our district until 2nd, and being both shy and young, I shouldn't be surprised that she was not "caught" by our virtually non-existent radar. When her 4th grade teacher seemed surprised that she wasn't GT, I should have requested testing right then and there.

For a few years, the enrichment entrance disappeared completely, and we are now using SAT-10 screeners, with parents only being added to the loop as a last step. I was part of a committee that worked to create an identification process, but they were clearly not taking parental input to heart. So now I encourage everyone I know who seems interested to pursue the parent request option.

Thanks so much for the welcome~~

In response to Dazey, Kriston & Dottie, the WISC4 was taken approx 4 yrs ago, just when it came out. I heard about the PSI & WMI bringing the FSIQ down, via research. Can tell you the school/district did not incorporate this in factoring the score. I searched high & low for DS paperwork this weekend, to find out his #'s on PRI and VCI - no luck yet. Baby boy has only had the pre-screener - not the full IQ by the psych. That's how they do it here; pre-screen has to hit the 130 before going for the WISC4, unless you qualify under Plan B. The rules are absolute, even if you have other criteria, the IQ has to be 2 standard deviations above or 130.

In response to Chris - Ahhhhh, I so agree.

On a positive note, our district screens every 2nd grader. Parental request can be made in K and 1st. Many parents though dont seem aware they can request testing. There is a misperception that teachers have to initiate it. Regardless, law says parents have to be notified and grant permission for testing to be done.

Oh boy.

While in theory that sounds like a financially responsible way to identify candidates for gifted programming while preserving resources..........



I don't like it.

Is there any way you could have him privately tested?

Shortcomings of "screeners" aside, our school at least allows for a lower score on the shadier measure to move on (125 on screener, but 130 on full testing).