Neato - you absolutely did the right thing! Or at least, it's what I would have done.

Very interesting. I definitely experienced this:

After reading Dr. Ratey's experiments I half-jokingly wondered if this explains the leveling out phenomenon when GT kids are not challenged. I'm almost certain, DS could have been classified as depressed in K. It took over a month for him to return to himself during that summer. Now after a somewhat bad year, it seems that his brain just doesn't work anymore. But after a few weeks of fresh air, hikes in nature, he seems to be coming around. He's so nice to be around, not as whiny, not crying at the drop of a hat, throwing fits b/c his LEGO creation fell apart ... just much more pleasant all around. Perhaps he is losing vital neuronal connections in his brain due to depression or lack of stimulation.

Neato,
Wow. You are good. You pinpointed the problem pretty dead on, with respect to that the bullies seem to have built in radar for him. And I am the scientific, data-driven type and I still agree with you wholeheartedly! My son seems to believe that to be popular, you need to be noticed... and to be noticed you need to advertise that you are a little different. (at least that is my interpretation of his actions... he likes to draw attention to himself a lot.) Maybe he is an only kid who is used to being the center of attention. Or maybe he is just so desperately in need of friends that bullies realize that withholding this gives them power over him. He doesn't project "doormat" so much because he will not back down when he is bullied, which tends to lead to more serious problems. Or at least it does with boys when you are eight and they are ten or eleven and ten inches bigger and 70 pounds heavier.

So it is very common that if he goes to a week-long day camp during the summer, at least one of the kids will start by pushing him or stealing his hat or glasses. He is a small, skinny, non-athletic, bookworm of a kid who believes he should be treated as an equal to the big boys. It think the bigger kids decide that they need to pick on him to knock him down a bit and put him in his place. Maybe boy's social hierarchy is closer to packs of wolves where dominance is given to the biggest, not the smartest. Due to his grade acceleration, he is always the smallest fish in the pond.

We also have had a similar problem as your DD, but with neighborhood kids outside of school. We have one neighborhood boy who is 11, nearly 12, who wants to be the gang leader of a group of younger kids (two boys who are the same age as my son (newly 8) and a girl who is about to turn 10). He was caught lying to another boy (10) about a broken hockey stick. The lie was that he blamed the purposeful destruction of the hockey stick on my son, and convinced the other kids to lie as well. It was seven kids saying that they saw my son break the hockey stick and my son staring at them in disbelief. Finally one older boy told on the 11 year old. He has now decided to make my son's life miserable by making sure that none of the neighborhood kids will play with him. So when my son sees kids outside and runs out the door to play, he is greeted by universal taunts and threats. I have overhead the eleven year old telling the other kids to get a baseball bat and threaten him. And I have now heard the younger kids telling each other this as reinforcement. The main problem I have is that the parents won't acknowledge this bullying. I have even had the neighbor kids yell taunts over the backyard fence when both my son and I were in the backyard and the next door parent was just standing idly by watching it all.

We live in a very small community where all the parents believe that their kids are gifted. All of the parents believe that their kids will be CEO's of companies one day, and a great deal of importance is given to learning how to be a leader. (and I think a leader is unconsciously defined as one who has power over others.) The parents all hold their kids back a year to give them an edge over other kids, so that most of the boys in my DS's 3rd grade class were turning 10 during the year. And it is almost like something out of the Stepford Wives or A Wrinkle in Time where to be unique is to be suspect. So suffice it to say that talking to the parents is an exercise in futility.

Sorry to go off on a long tirade. I was just completely captivated by the concept of "nipping" such problems in the bud and by your assertive stance to protect your DD. I'm not an overly assertive person (okay, I'm extremely timid!), but I feel the need to protect my son from this, but don't know how. What would you in this situation? I'll throw it open for any and all suggestions!

What do I do about neighborhood kids when the parents will not step in? And how do I teach my DS how to not make waves and attract bullies without telling him to hide or feel ashamed of his uniqueness? And should I move this to a new thread? (I don't want to hijack a very interesting discussion on depression! I'm new enough that I don't quite know how to do that. Can I copy over Neato's first post to go with a new thread?)

The other kids are probably afraid of the bully, too. That's why they comply with his orders not to play with your DS. I think the main problem is that one older boy, the 11 year old who is the "leader".

My brothers were bullied in a similar fashion when we were growing up. I'm sorry to say that it didn't stop until one of my brothers beat that kid to a bloody pulp in the high school parking lot. My mother was horrified, my brother was suspended and the vice principal congratulated my dad on having a son who "knows how to handle himself" <eyeroll>

I hate to say this Cathy, but while I wish it didn't have to be done, it probably had to. Remember, there are more of them than there are of us. By that I mean us as reasonable, sensitive and actions guided by moral compass.

In theory I prefer to take the high road everytime. In reality; have you ever hiked down that road? Holy cow, you can go for miles and days without every seeing another living soul.



ebeth, I'm going to p.m. you.

I saw something on bullying on TV a few years ago--one of those "spotlight on bullying" news-program things, I think. Nothing much stuck with me except a couple stray facts:

1) Kids alone are the kids who get bullied. Kids with even one friend who will stand by them are usually not worth the bully's trouble.

2) The single biggest factor for halting bullying was if someone stepped up and said "Stop it" to the bully/ies on behalf of the child being bullied. Just one kid stepping out of the mob and saying "This is not okay" stopped the bullying in the vast majority of cases--the number 85% sticks in my head, though I can't swear that's right.

This refects my experience from childhood, which is why I remembered the point, I think. I was often the one who bucked the crowd and said "That's not okay." There was no bullying in my presence.

This says to me that it's really about building a healthy feeling of community among the kids, so that kids feel like it's okay to stand up for someone. A dog-eat-dog, everyone for him/herself playground is not healthy.

One other thought:

I think there's a big difference between the bullying done by boys and that done by girls. I was much more likely to say something to boy bullies, since I knew they wouldn't hit me and hitting was really their only mode of attack. (Boys obviously wouldn't have that same assurance that I had as a girl.)

OTOH, the female "queen bees" are a lot more devious--as 'Neato can attest!--and a lot more difficult to stand up to, whether the good Samaritan is male or female.

Oh Kriston, where were you in 8th grade when I needed you.......

I was a bully magnet myself <sigh>

I wish I'd been there!

Don't get me wrong: I was not the most popular girl in school because I didn't put up with bullying. But I knew who my friends were, and that was all that mattered to me.

The high school volleyball team was tough on me though. Lots of queen bees and not a lot of friendly faces there for me.

I'm definitely glad to be a grown-up!