We have asked for a meeting with school and now it is scheduled. Yikes! As shy parents, we often think about having meetings, but rarely do as the issues just don't seem that important when the time comes to actually schedule a meeting. But this time the issues stayed, so we are doing it.
We have never met with anyone other than the teacher. Even though the principal last year invited us personally to meet about dd skipping, we declined. So here we are. We have a list if issues. Not sure how to present them.

Do we say, these were problems last year, how do we avoid them this year? (ex: stayed in easy math class way too long til behaviors became issue, child did not progress in spelling and was never corrected, but instead given compliments)

Do we say all these things were good last year, how do we keep them - and hope that the line of thinking gives us a good teacher that solves all of last year's problems without us needing to mention them? (ex:child enjoyed math time in the top group, and had no problem with the multiple choice approach to reading questions, is learning a lot over the summer so might be ready to do more difficult work, etc)

Do we say, these are some concrete things we want: More frequent re-evaluation of placement, dotted lines on the writing paper, etc.

My guess is that there's no one right way to approach things as it probably depends on our perspective as well as the school's, but I know y'all have had a lot of experience with these education people and any advice, or confidence building would be appreciated.

Also, FWIW, dd is 6, skipped K and was not challenged in first. Tends to be highly active and creative, and misbehaves due to "too much energy" -though has never gotten in trouble in school. Ds is 8, laid back, and doesn't really care if anybody likes his schoolwork. If he finds something useful in what you are teaching, fine. If not, he will quietly tolerate you (turn in blank papers too!). Nobody knows how full of facts this child is, and when he shares something, they are shocked. The reaction puts him deeper in his shell.

Basically, we want the kids to enjoy learning. We figure it doesn't matter if they are learning to their potential as much as it matters that they develop a life long love for learning. Most of life's learning is self directed anyway, and that's the skill we are looking for. We love our school and the teachers and the flexibility they have shown, but see some things on the horizon that we'd regret not dealing with ahead of time.
So, what should we do? Cancel the meeting? You're right, it's not that important anyway.

lol, Master of None

I despise confrontation and until some really awfull things happened at school for my son, I avoided meetings with the school. Now, while I still hate confrontation, I am proactive in trying to head off problems before they reach critical mass.

I think you should have the meeting with the school and perhaps present your thoughts in a this is what we experienced last year. These are things we would like to see happen this year. How can we work together to make this happen.

Make a list of the concerns you have from last year as well as a wish list of things you would like to see for the next term. Try to prioritize them and make the top items your biggest concerns.

Talking about the emotional impact of your concerns on your child sometimes works better than a whole lot of empirical data (although the data helps too). If you have private test results have them with you. If possible see if the Psych will attend the meeting with you as well.

Personally, I've had decent results using the let's work together approach before the problems get out of hand than trying to get academic changes when the school only sees behavior issues.

Good luck and keep us posted

I would not stress IQ scores too much, but would emphasize strong achievement test scores, especially individual tests or above level tests.

Bring examples of self initiated projects that your children do in addition to (or instead of) assigned class work!

Now is a great time (k-4th) for a grade skip! We wish we had been offered one more for our son when he was still young.

Also keeping in mind that the teacher's/school's goals are not the same as yours can be helpful in thinking about how to frame things.

They are worried about kids performance in general, test scores, workload, classroom management, etc. You are worried about one child. Sometimes those two sets of priorities line up, but not always.

Anything you can do to present your issues and ideas in a way that supports the school's/teacher's list of priorities, rather than as asking for special treatment that will detract from their reaching their goals, the more likely you are to get the help your child needs.

IMHO, meetings can be good. It lets you know where the school is, and it should be a place to voice your concerns. We have tried to have concreat things we wanted, advanced math is an example. We have also brought in proof of where DS5 was at before we asked for what we wanted. We als worked in colaboration with the school, it was a team effort which included us working with him at home. Teaching them to teach themselves is one of the best ways to develop life long learners. Also indulging their passions and letting them explore them to the depth they want, also helps. We expose DS5 to things and go into more deph as needed. We cast a wide net and then go deep when needed. Im rambling, before you go decide what you want, ask for it, and try to back it up with why you want it, and try to show what they are doing. It's all a process, not a final goal.

LOL, you sound like me, MON, at the end of your post. But I think it would be good to go through with the meeting. Remember, it doesn't have to be the end-all and be-all meeting, you are allowed to have another one. Sometimes it's best to cover a few specific things and also establish the relationship.

Agree with everything above.
I guess one way to look at is this: If your children were BEHIND to the extent that they are AHEAD, would you be scheduling a meeting?
Actually, probably not, the school would have already called you to discuss it.

I find this comment pretty troubling:

Nobody knows how full of facts this child is, and when he shares something, they are shocked. The reaction puts him deeper in his shell.

Especially: The reaction puts him deeper in his shell.

Just that is a valid reason to pursue this, IMHO.

Oooooh! That's very wise, 'Neato! Really, that's an extremely smart way to think about it to get past that "Am I nuts or whiny or wrong?" feeling that we parents of HG+ kids so often get.

Brilliant!

Thanks for the comments/support/advice. We have written a sort of game plan.
We will say what worked and thank them for that, say what might have made things better, and then say what our concerns are for the upcoming year. Then see if school can offer solutions. If not, we have our own specific suggestions ready to ask for.
When I hear edu-speak, refocus the topic. It's not about educational philosophy, it's about my kids thriving.
When I hear judgement, refocus the topic. It's not about me or my parenting, it's about the kids thriving at school.
Those are my two major goals and traps I can fall into.

I'll report back when we are done.

May the force be with you

Sounds great MofN! It's good you recognize your trap. Mine is "proving my point". I tend to get side-tracked and distracted looking for that one piece of data, or that one clause in the regulations, and lose my focus. My advocate last year would tap me on the shoulder and gently shake his head when he saw me going down the rabbit trail.

Another trap for me is accepting wishy-washy. I learned valuable lessons from the mediator there. When they say "maybe we can do something once the kids settle in..." counter immediately with "So we can plan on X, Y and Z by October 1st?" Counter their attempts at avoiding the issue with concrete goals and schedules.

Best wishes!!! I love Cathy's powerful inspiration, LOL!

Oh, one closing thought....if grade skipping or acceleration is a goal, counter the inevitable "oh the precious little one can't possibly go in with The Big Kids" with "good point....so how can we bring XXX (level of subject) down to where he is?" Suddenly moving the kid seems so much more doable! See through their "excuses" and make it about solving the problem, rather than avoiding the undoable. And yes....may that force be with you!!!!

Excellent post, Dottie! You really have heard it all!

I am also extremely envious of the fact that you get an advocate (provided by the state, I assume) to attend your meetings.

good luck MoN.

Don't DOK too much, the advocate was truly a gift from God, but not a school freebie! It was a concerned friend with a legal background to boot, who really felt for our case, and the timing all worked in our favor. The mediator was the only thing provided by The System. I learned so much though from both!

I'm late to this discussion, but am prepping for a similar meeting next fall, so I'll add a couple of thoughts.

First, this site has some very good resources. For short-term review, I would suggest reading Julia Osborn's article on advocacy (you can find it easily using the site's search function). The article library also offers a Davidson Advocacy guide, which, though it's 40 pages long, reads quickly and has good outline ideas. If acceleration is your goal, there are any number of good articles in the 'cybersource' article library. I read about one parent who brought in several such articles, with key points highlighted, and presented them in a binder to the school representative.

Second, a portfolio of your child's work/play in math, reading, whatever, showing a level of competence above what the school curriculum offers at the age-appropriate grade level, is hard to debate against.

Knowing your blind spots is key, too, if you can manage it. Mine is that I'm apt to rely on personal intensity rather than dispassionate data - this always backfires! But it's a terrific effort to be detached where my child is concerned.

Best of luck.

That's very helpful. The purpose of our meeting is for us as parents to find out about the curriculum. Perhaps everything will be perfect. (doubt it- hence the meeting). What we are asking for is not outright acceleration. For Ds, it's finding out if he needs an LD diagnosis and if that would help move him to what we think is a more appropriate placement.
For DD (already skipped once) we are not looking for accleration as much as we are wondering what they will do with her. We want to communicate her needs - emotions and academics are heavily entwined- and make sure that when they start teaching to the test (writing perfect sentences and paragraphs) that she will have some sort of creative outlet so she doesn't feel beaten down.
We have been gathering samples of Ds work that got worse over the school year and better since school let out, and DDs work that shows her skill level as higher than expected for her grade, but we have been talking ourselves out of taking it with us. We were using it mostly to help us believe in our perspective and thinking that we'd be considered obsessive nuts and open ourselves up to getting picked apart (see this gramatical error- your child is not so smart- type of thing).

What about samples for an informal meeting like ours. Is it a good idea or not?

Well it's over. How frustrating! How exhausting! Good heavens how many ways do they have for saying no and each way just gets lengthier! And then they turn the tables and they start the emotional stuff, the gushing about what a wonderful parent you are, blah blah blah.

Anyway, we got what we wanted with dd. But we didn't ask for anything really except a decent teacher.
However, with ds, the bottom line is that they will be aware that handwriting is hard and will look at the problems. But that's what happened last year! They did acknowledge on the writing samples that he actually did get worse, but the answer seemed to be that he was lazy and not putting forth his best effort. No, they won't let him type - then everybody would want to.
Looks like in my mind we have several choices. 1. Wait til the beginning of the year and see how he does. 2. Meet with the teacher and say exactly what we think needs to be done (even though we'd rather they use their expertise), 3. get outside testing to find out what he needs and then tell school. Or 4. Insist on a SPED eval and push until we get an IEP with a computer on it.
He doesn't talk and can't write legibly. Yet, he must do both before he can succeed in school. At home he talks. At home he types. With a little support at school, he'd talk and type and work on handwriting, but it's just not going to happen. His low placement will stand until he talks and writes.
For now, we'll meet with the teacher at the beginning of the year. If things aren't improving, we'll pursue outside testing to help us figure out the problem. There are so many good things about the school that keep us there, but this bad thing is getting to be BAAAD.
I hate meetings.

oh no hugs. much luck to you.

MON, I hear you on the handwriting issues... DD has no official accommodations either. Last year, I had her type her homework (without asking the teacher's permission). The teacher was fine with it, and homework was MUCH quicker As for in class work, I haven't tried to address that. I am very interested to hear what you and the school work out for your DS.

Dear Master:

So sorry to hear your meeting was discouraging. For what it's worth, I've found the best summarized blow-by-blow account of a mother's ongoing negotiations with schools over her child's whole educational career in the beginning of DEVELOPING MATH TALENT. You might find some comfort (or not!) and ideas there. In essence, she concludes that advocacy with the public system is a time-consuming, effort intensive job that continues through all twelve years of the conventional curriculum. For this reason, we are trying to have a home-school system set up as a fall-back.

I'd like to mention again the rich resource base the Davidson institute offers in its cybersource pages - I know there are specialized articles there on dealing with handwriting and suchlike, if you haven't read them already.

When I think this process through, and try to see the public school administration's side, I assume about 80% of their parents believe their children to be gifted and deserving of 'special' attention. For this reason, I've concluded it's essential to have third party data (test scores) and analysis (articles and research) to make the case I want to present. With this approach I'm hopeful we can maintain the dialog on the plane of what is best for the child and consistent with the school's mission, rather than the plane of what we think versus what they think.
I have my fingers crossed that this approach will get us where we want to be.

Hang in there!

Agreed. Try to collect as much tangible data as you can to support your situation. I really feel you should go with the full eval at this point to see what you are dealing with. Find out what's behind the handwriting and expression issues from a specialist. They can get you the special education plan if you need it.

I look at how stressed I was last year. The thought of repeating the process and starting over with each teacher for 11 more years makes me realize it may not be a good idea for me!
I'm not sure I have the temperment to deal with it!

I'm currently attempting to take advantage of a partial homeschool availability that our state has. This way the girls can attend school with their friends(they get a long with different age groups and we are lucky that they both like being with their same age group as well), yet spend part of their day, working at their appropriate learning level. And I don't have to put the burden on the teacher. I think it works for everyone. The girls are happy, parents feel learning needs are adressed to some point, teacher doesn't have to deal with me!

I would LOVE partial homeschooling! My state doesn't allow it.

MON:
You say that one of your options is to get outside testing to find out what he needs and then tell the school. Does that mean that you aren't sure what he needs? I'd say do the private testing if you can - don't wait around for the school to do it or to "use their expertise". They probably don't know what to do either.

After a very frustrating meeting that we had with the principal in June we decided that we had to pursue further testing. They psychologist who tested DS two years ago told us that it seemed time to reassess to get a stable measure of ability and to figure out the behaviors issues. We just don't feel that the school is giving him what he needs but yet we don't really know what he needs. Hoping to know after testing in August. Then we'll know what to ask for and whether the school can do it.

Best of luck. It would be nice to take the summer off from worrying about school stuff, wouldn't it??!

Dazey,
The state allowing for it and actually getting it to work properly are two totally different propositions........

Debbie,
Incredibly frustrating, sent you a p.m.

Oh Mon, what a disappointing meeting! Better luck next time, and be sure to document everything they promised!

Partial HS sounds like a terrific option. What states allow it?

FWIW, we are looking at sinking big bucks into testing. We'd rather spend it on things like specialized lessons, toys (and vacations!), but just don't see any way around it. We try to see it as an investment that will yield a return to our overall family quality of life for years and years to come.

MON -
This just makes me want to cry. How sad. It was bad enought when they resisted letting my 'low handwriting' boy type, but if my own son wasn't at least talking at school, I would have felt too helpless. I'm praying you get a teacher who understands.

I guess if it were me I would start the ball rolling on the SPED, just out of sheer frustrationg, and because it's the only thing that is gaureenteed to get action of some kind.

Remember that we aren't required to fix all these messes, just to do our best and try.
Grinity

Oh, how frustrating for your ds! The handwriting thing is one of my biggest pet peeves. I'd say, go with a private eval to get him the help he needs--if the school hasn't recognized and worked toward fixing the problem by now, they're unlikely to, ever.

We're lucky enough to have found a school for ds6 that does writing as a class seperate from subject work ... But that was a barrier at his public school last year that I just don't get.

Now the talking ... That's a whole seperate issue and I've got no advice, but plenty of sympathy for the situation!

Good luck, whatever you decide to do next.

Mia, it's GREAT to see you! I hope you post an update somewhere!!!

Agreed! How the heck are you?

Follow up:
After having a frustrating last year where my boy pretty much stopped trying and stopped communicating and the teacher could not see the true him, we have found new hope.
This year, his teacher tested him and found he is a good reader, that he can write if his handwriting is de-emphasized, and that his handwriting improves when given 3 lines! It feels good as a parent because that's what we were thinking too! Yet last year, school was telling us "until you can write, no reason to even consider anything else". He did get moved down yet another reading level, but this teacher recognizes his strengths and HE'S TALKING!!! The external academics are not as important as the internal kid believing in himself and beginning to challenge from within. We know he's bright, his teacher knows he is too, now he is safe to show his true self.
We see in this teacher, the one who will believe in him, who will teach him, who will restore our faith in the public school system. (a little too much responsibility?)
We expect challenges, and bumps, but are so glad to be able to "stand down". Rest, relax, take a breath and go back into our introverted nonconfrontational comfort.
And best part is that we don't feel the need any longer to submit him to outside testing which would be very stressful for him. No need to consider home school, private school, no need to search for solutions. At least for the moment, all is well. He's developing again instead of regressing. Aaaaah...

Yay! Here's hoping for more of that same progress for him!

I'm so happy to read this MONone!!!

What a wonderful feeling for you! Glad all is well (or at least much, much better)!