I'm not sure I'm clear on the distinction you're making here. What constitutes T? What constitutes G? How are these distnguished? Are you saying IQ=G and achievement=T?

Gifted is IQ based.

Talent is, well, talent.

DS can play guitar. He would qualify as talented. Talent can also be sports skill or artistic ability ...

Well, sure. But that's a generic definition of talent that doesn't seem relevant to your point or our discussion. I assumed you were talking about *academic* talent, no? I mean, we're not testing for athletic or music talent, and they're not usually included in GT programs.

So please correct me if I'm understanding wrong: you think schools have to IQ test all kids in order to ID GTness, and only IQ test?

You know, when they do that, they usually have to use group IQ tests for the sake of fiscal responsibility and convenience, and those group tests like the CogAT tend to miss LOTS of truly GT kids, even some HG+ kids. DS7 took one of them and just squeaked in as GT, though he's a DYS kid. Group IQ tests are not very good tests. Achievement tests help catch some of the truly GT kids that those lousy group IQ tests might miss. I think that's a good thing, as the problem is with the instrument, not with the kid.

[quote=Kriston]

So please correct me if I'm understanding wrong: you think schools have to IQ test all kids in order to ID GTness, and only IQ test?
[end quote]

IQ, yes.

ALL kids? no.

Kids are flagged to be tested and they either test in or they don't. That's your 1-2%. And, yes, parents can flag their own kid.

In our state, kids are required to be tested. By law. All kids.

I'm missing your point.

Kids AREN'T "flagged to be tested." ALL kids are tested for GT in 3rd grade. Every last one of them. The state law requires it.

It's a basic difference in method between your state and mine, and it is mandated by law. Your state can pick and choose which kids are tested. Mine can't.

Services for GT kids aren't mandated, but GT ID is.

All kids are tested, in the time frame that the school dictates, but if a parent has a kid coming into K she can request the testing be done early for whatever reason.

Our school flagged DS to be tested in 2nd grade. It all depends on the kid. Some roll along and test when general testing is done. Others need testing much earlier.

My point is that a teacher or parent can flag a kid apart from what the system dictates.

Okay, I woke up late today!

Just wanted to throw this in: Our district gifted coordinator is likely to tell you that the average IQ for all children in the district is 120.
I haven't heard 40% gifted but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that claim in this community.
It is an affluent community that is hard to get into because it is cost prohibitive. We purchased a very modest house 5 years ago because we heard the schools were very good and even though we hadn't had formal testing yet, we know the girls were very intelligent because they did some unusual things as babies.
People move here not just from the area but from states far away, my pediatrician tells me, for the services. Especially the gifted services.
Luckily for us, it's not rare to run into other HG kids which has been nice.
Because they seem to think so many kids are gifted and have an excellent program which they think is all locked up, they do not offer individualized curriculum for kids because they don't understand kids who can complete all elementary requirements within a year or two like my daughters.

I wanted to throw in that there are multiple ways of differentiating between "talented" and "gifted." At least one of the definitions I've read seemed to consider talent to be a gift that was realized. (Maybe that was in Re-forming Gifted Ed (Rogers)? Not sure, too much heat, too much to do, and too many interruptions.) Which is just to say that we may not all mean the same things with these words, and the experts may not either.

I'm outta here for the nonce. Catch you on the other side of the summer.

So your system *IQ* tests all kids at some point--regardless of whether anyone suspects GTness? Or only the ones flagged by parents or teachers? This post sounds different than your other one, so I'm trying to clarify.

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I'm still not sure you're following me. Every last child in our system is tested for GTness in 3rd grade. 100% testing. All kids in the system. That's why your statement that "not all kids should be tested, only those flagged" doesn't work in my state. All kids MUST be tested.

Teachers and parents can also request earlier testing in our system. DS7 was IDd by his K teacher for testing, so he was IDd early. So that's no different than your situation.

Our mass testing might explain some of our high GT numbers, now that I think of it. Our system will presumably catch more of the borderline or underachieving cases...assuming the group IQ test isn't too lousy.

Thanks for the pitch-in there, kcab. That's sort of how I think about talent, too, but it seemed like RPM9 was going another direction, making some clear, strictly demarcated distinction between G and T that I didn't get. I'm just trying to follow along! Meanwhile, we'll look forward to your return!