ACS, I agree with you. I think my point should be if you try all that and it doesn't work and there is emotional fall-out, you don't have to stick it out for the sake of the stick it out lesson. It's important to look at the individual situation for your child and act accordingly.

I agree Mon, you have to take into consideration the child. I have one of each.
With one you can have an emotionless discussion about the affect people's actions have.
The other one is remarkably socially astute and does internalize to a great degree.
She's also too little to separate out the logic from those emotions, so I'd be more apt to take her out of the situation until she is developmentally ready to deal with those issues.

Also, I'm a little hesitant to over condition my kids to put up with B.S.

My husband has rapidly progressed in his career because he wasn't afraid to switch companies where waranted. At one point he was with a very solid company with a promising path. Twice, he was blocked from making an upward move because it was in the boss's best interest to keep him where he was.
The second time he left. Went to another large company where he has been promoted up twice.
A few collegues/friends are still there, pretty much not happy about not having made any progress in their careers.

Excellent! And then comes what might the even harder step...remembering that you DID act with individual needs in mind, and forget the more generic advice, LOL!

DS6's last year of preschool he had a personality mismatch and we required him to deal with. He was acting out with her, but not at home, he would have the occasional bad day, but was mostly excited to go to school each day. I really considered it more of a class management issue (though I never gave DS that excuse, he was told he was expected to behave even if he didn't agree with her rules). We let him vent his frustration, we tried to show him how he was contributing to the situation, but ultimately he needed to learn how to deal with someone who he might not be over-the-top in love with (which was his experience with preschool teachers up to that point). He survived it just fine.

His Kindergarten teacher was a completely different situation and she was the ultimate reason we decided to leave the school. He stopped asking questions at home (which I didn't realize just how many questions he asks until he wasn't asking *any*), he stopped caring about anything, he was dumbing himself down to fit in better. He would tell us school was "fine" but he was bored and he like his teacher "fine" but she wouldn't teach him anything. We started having more frequent tantrums and general behavior problems. Finally, he started with screaming that he didn't want to go to school, to please let him stay home or make them teach him real things. The more I tried to get the teacher to help me, the more she intensified her campaign to prove that he wasn't advanced (she had a weird obsession with his handwriting). She just refused to speak to me when she realized that I wasn't going away. I requested conferences with her and was passed off to the GT coordinator who refused to meet with me (even though he was hand-selected *by them* to be in a pilot Kindergarten 1hr/wk pull-out program) and finally the Principal who told me there would be no sit down meeting between us because there was nothing to talk about. I figured if dealing with them made me froth at the mouth, it was absolutely unfair to ask a 6 year old to deal with it.

I'm not saying the op's situation was like that and I hope that it's not a common situation at all. But, I think sometimes it just doesn't matter if the teacher is having a bad year or is just a bad teacher when the child is obviously unable to cope and being harmed by the situation. We've experienced both a personality issue and a *teacher* issue, there's a very distinct difference between them in our experience, one I would try to work through with the child, the other I wish I had listened to him sooner and taken action.

Thank you, Dottie, my friend!

Well, or if you consider going through all those "teachable moments" but don't see that there will be any benefit but DO see the harm being done in the present.

We only lasted 6 weeks, but it was plenty long enough! I wonder sometimes if we should have done more, but I really think it would have hurt DS and gotten us no benefit, no lessons, no nothing. Now, granted, I think ours was pretty nearly a worst-case scenario teacher. I don't think our situation was doodlebug's situation. But I also wouldn't want to advise anyone in a situation like ours to go through all those channels that you're talking about, acs. The right thing for us to do was to get DS out of there. I'm sure of it. There were no positive lessons to be learned in that classroom. There just weren't, and I felt like I had been sold a bill of goods that there would be if he stayed. (By whom, I'm not sure? ??? I guess from wherever I got the attitude that "just deal" is the right thing to say to a miserable 6yo in an intolerable situation he could do nothing to mediate or avoid.)

Sometimes you have to protect your child first and foremost. I just want to give people permission to do that if they need it. You have to decide where the line is for you and your child, but I do think it is okay to have a line, and I don't think the line has to be as extreme as abuse, which is pretty much where I used to draw it. Teachers have the capacity to do real psychological and emotional harm to students, whether they mean to or not, and I think we as parents have to give ourselves permission to stop that if we see it.

Lessons should be learned over time, especially lessons about the flaws and foibles of adults with power over children. I think 6 or 7 or 8 is too young for some of these lessons that we're talking about.

Sorry to take such a strong stand, but I really feel that a disservice could be done to kids here. I just don't think school should be a place for kids to learn to suffer. I think that's a lousy lesson to learn so young.

One other thought: I often hear parents of GT kids--here and IRL--saying "I wish I had taken action sooner. That situation was bad for her and I wish I had realized and done something about it." It's really common.

I have yet to hear anyone say "I wish I had left well enough alone. He was fine where he was."

I think that fact is influencing my attitude. I hate regret. I think it's a wasted emotion. And regret about what we've done for our kids is the worst. I want people to feel like they have to power to choose to act, even if they choose not to use that power, if that makes any sense.

Mamaandmore: you just described exactly what is happening with my DS8. I've continually asked myself if him not asking questions, seemingly less bright is just normal development, a phase, a direct result of being unchallenged in school etc. This summer has been soooooo nice.....no tantrums, no bursting into tears b/c his creation fell apart, not as much whining, using his manners, just plain old much nicer kid to be around. It really scares me to think about sending him back to school in a month and returning to all the stress...it really affects the entire household having to deal with him each evening. Also, I have a son going to K who is more advanced in some ways than DS8 was in K. DS's K year was miserable. I should have pulled it then.

I listened to all the people who said "he has to learn to be bored." "School isn't exciting." "He has to learn to deal with it now to prepare for adulthood." I kept thinking "He's only 5, or 6 or 7, should learning still be exciting? Shouldn't learning something new always be exciting?" "What is the real lesson he is learning?" I read a post by a mom who said that her DD finally told her "if real life is this boring and unrewarding, I'm going to commit suicide now." The mom said the DD was serious.

These topics are difficult b/c what we are all discussing are degrees along a continuum from best--->good--->ok---->do no harm---->poor----->bad---->worse---->abuse. Of course the advice will be different for each of those points AND will be different for each kid. My friend's kid has NO problem showing what she knows, reviewing stuff she already knows, no problem with not being challenge (same GAI but VCI/PRI reversed) but those things are killing my son. It's not a gifted issue but a personality issue. Well it's a gifted issue in that he's not being challenged to his ablility/pace of learning.

This year was the first time I felt the teacher really "got" my son. But still he wasn't challenged the way he needs to be. I don't have the achievement testing, which I need, to go head to head with the school and am having difficulty getting it. I wonder if I'm giving up too quickly if I decide not to send him back to school. Maybe I need to really fight this one last time......sigh.....

I think all those things that you're talking about, Dazey, are signs that harm is being done.

Now, what that means to your particular kid and what you want to do about it are the big questions. There's no one right answer.

But you are exactly the sort of person I'm talking to when I say that if you think harm is being done to your child, it's OKAY to act! Now! Preemptively! You do not have to be patient and teach coping lessons and wait for all heck to break loose before you make a change. What you see and sense is real, and it's okay to do something about it--whatever that might be!--if you you feel like you should. You don't have to listen to the common wisdom that says there are lessons to be learned. There may be lessons there. But maybe the cost of those lessons is too great for your particular child.

I hope I'm not being obnoxious about this. I just know how you feel. If I can help, I want to.