DS9 had what I call an "inappropriate (big kid) temper tantrum" this afternoon, and not for the first time for this issue. His sister is going to the local fair with a friend, and he's pulling his "unfair" card. My policy has always been that friend issues can't be fair. They are what they are. And I can't control that even if I want to! But....it hit me that the kid really doesn't have many friends, and does NOT have the opportunities that his sisters have. And that really isn't fair.

Any thoughts on how to deal with that? Thunder's rumbling, so I'm hitting "submit" without much rethinking on this one....

No thoughts to help, Dottie, but I'm thinking we're going to have a "friend" issue with ours. So, I'm all ears for other people's thoughts. (And, I must say, you are much more accomplished than I if you can drive and type at the same time )

Ah Squirt, you had me confused there for a minute, until I remembered my "location" (several hours of driving per day, !)

I do read books at intersections, but haven't yet graduated to red-light-surfing, .

FWIW, DS9 and DD11 are having a great time together at the moment...his "pout" was short lived. And while I don't think he should have pouted to begin with, the fact that he has so few friends did give me pause.

DD13's fair trip was canceled anyway, thanks to the storms.

Dottie, I'm not sure I understand the question. Was he invited and you didn't let him go or what exactly was he upset about? That she got to go period or that he didn't get to go for some reason. Does he not have the same opportunities because he is only 9 and his sister is 13? I think a 13 year old should definitely have more opportunites to go places with friends than a 9 year old. I'm probably just being dense (you know how I can be - ) but I guess I don't really understand what you think isn't fair. Sorry!!

DD13 was invited with HER friend, and that invite only included her. DS didn't necessarily want to go with 13/14 year old girls, but was lamenting the fact in general that he never got those opportunities. In the past year, my girls have gone to amusement parks, Y swims, sleepovers, camping trips, beach outings, concerts, ice skating, etc with their friends. Part of it is age, but it's also in part due to the fact that my girls have a lot more friends than he has.

I DO think it's "fair" that DD13 gets to go...on this particular outing. But in general, DS has way less opportunities, . This is one of those "life is not fair" things, rather than something I can control. But I have to admit, he has a point...kwim?

Sent you the long response by PM, but I wouldn't let him view this as just a random thing he has no control over in the "life's not fair" sense. How people interact with others and how significant they make relationships with others seems to be very much in someone's control. Maybe your DDs have more opportunities because of age, but likely it also has to do with how much they value hanging out with others and how much effort they put into maintaining relationships. To me, that's not about fairness but rather about choices and the consequences of those choices. If your DS wants more such things, then he has to figure out how to focus on building relationships rather than just be mad when he has fewer friend opportunities.

One of my DSs has little focus on friendship but seems to have as much friendly interaction with others as he wants, and the other wants more while acting so as to guarantee he doesn't have better relationships. For him, we discuss daily how to make choices that will get him the consequences he wants. (I'm thinking running away with the basketball tonight wasn't a good start!!)

LOL on the basketball!

Great points. I confess, I've felt a little "woe is me" on behalf of DS, but the truth is...you've made great points Gratified. I think once DS is feeling secure and comfy, I'll gently bring these issues up. You've made excellent points about his responsibility in the friend making department.

I totally agree gratified. It wouldn't be "fair" in my opinion to limit the girls opportunities just because their little brother doesn't get to do as many things. I was thinking that if my mom had stopped me from doing things because my little sister didn't have as many friends, this would have led to my hating my little sister.

My younger child isn't nearly as social as my older one and I have been trying to make more opportunities for him. Maybe if sis is invited to the fair, you could invite DS's friend to go to the fair with you. He is young and it can be harder for some kids than others to make friends. Maybe you could facilitate his social life and give him the opportunities.

I like gratified's post. I was also going to recommend coaching your DS to invite other kids out to do stuff. Even if they're not best friends, it would still be fun.

Do you think that now he is settled into a grade (with kids closer to his intellectual age), that he will have more of a chance to let friendships develop? I get the sense that he gets along OK with the kids in his class, so is the problem that he doesn't have close friends to do the bigger events with? Is it possible to encourage him to invite someone to do something special with him? Maybe he has too high a standard of the level of friendship required for that kind of invitation. Sometimes you can invite someone you get along with OK, rather than a bossom budy to join you on an outing. Do you think he was more upset about the lack of friends or not going to the fair?

Ooh, everyone got in before me while I was composing. It looks like we're all on the same page.

Now THAT is the question!!! I wish I knew. I honestly just don't know. Perhaps it's perfectly normal for any kid with two older siblings.

I should say I almost deleted this post earlier, but am so glad I didn't. I cherish all the feedback.

I should add that my first gut reaction was "you canNOT be upset over this...especially with ME!!!" While he was pouting in his room though, I did try to think this through from his perspective. And everything seems to have a new slant when "GT" is considered.

Thanks again for the great outside POV.

I don't really see this as a gifted thing, in my opinion. I think it is more of an age thing. Did your girls do as many social things when they were 9 as they do now? My 9 year old does not have near as many outings as his older brothers. Much more parental involvement is needed for friendships at that age. His older brothers call and e-mail their friends and set things up on their own, the nine year old can't really do that yet. (Nor are any of his classmates or friends on the friends only chat sites like ALL of his brothers' are!)

I think the problem you most likely are going to be facing is the "disimilar age friends" issue that we are now having with DS11. Due to the skips, all of his classmates and friends are 13 and up. Thirteen year olds generally have more freedom than 11 year olds, and that can sometimes be a problem when he is at their houses or out with them.

That surely could be the case CFK...I tend to stew over things in my mind, and they always work their way around to "is this a gifted thing?" eventually. I probably spend too much time on these boards, LOL! My girls have always had these opportunities though, and are pretty closely spaced. It could also be a gender thing, a personality thing, as well as an age thing. Thanks for the thoughts. I feel better prepared for the (inevitable) next time!!!!

Sorry I missed this post. I wasn't online last night. But I think you got great advice. Anytime parents can encourage kids taking responsibility for themselves, I'm all for it. "Woe is me" doesn't go very far with me, I'm afraid, LOL!

But I think you're 100% right that gender and age probably factor in, too. 13yos & 11yos are just a lot more given to those sorts of opportunities than 9yos.

So, yeah! What they all said!

Dottie,
I feel for you from a slightly different perspective. DS is also 9 and while extremely social does not do well at maintaining friendships. He is great friends with someone for a few weeks and then they won't play with him anymore. We keep working on the social graces. BUT, according to his Psych, his teachers and the school staff, DS is interacting well. None of us can quite figure out the problem. We suspect that DS might just be a bit too intense about his interests and loses his new friends in the depth of his interactions. Interestingly, he has manged to keep 1 very good friend now for almost a year. The funny thing is they really don't have anything in common

As the younger sib in my family, I know I spent a decent amount of time pouting that my older sib was going and doing interesting things when I had to stay home!

BTW, I also read at stop lights...I thought I was the only one

Dottie-

I'm not sure of I have anything new to add to the conversation. But I want to say that you're a great parent to be so concerned. Maybe you can get DS to open up a bit about what his social needs are, and see if he is really feeling lonely or if he just wants to do more "fun stuff" like his sisters.

If it's more the activities than the friends, then you can probably help him to line up a few things and see if a neighbor or someone can be invited along. If he is yearning for a close friend, that's something harder to fix.

Books on tape are the way to go!

Today's Lego drive will be JUST DS and me, so hopefully we'll have some good bonding time, . (Yesterday's meltdown came after too much oohing and aahing over DD11's art camp portfolio, .)

Being in PA though, I just hope I don't come upon ELH at an intersection, with both of us reading our books, ! (Seriously, it's good to have that crazy company!)

It's hard to be detached when your children are in a state of distress. I also think Gratified3 gives good advice. The richness of his social life may be related to his intellectual precociousness, since it's well documented that kids like this very often have difficulty finding friends.

Even so, it seems that you might be able to make this a 'teachable moment' by framing discussion with him on this subject in terms of thinking through what he values in life (e.g., going out more) and the kinds of skills and actions that will help him get those things. If social connections are a key part of getting to his priorities, he will help himself in the long run by putting some of his mental energy into developing his skills in this area. You can be his ally in this endeavor.

If it's any consolation, I have a nephew (by marriage) who tantrumed frighteningly and inappropriately well into his teens. He is now in his second year in college and has been drafted into an innovative math research fellowship program which covers tuition and a $10,000/year grant for research. I would say that the passion that makes our children hard to handle in may cases also makes them strive harder, and is essential to their long-term survival as creative thinkers and innovators.

(End of sermon).

Thank you for ALL the wonderful advice!!! I am grateful, and take all your thoughts to heart. I do have to comment though after Fitzi's post, lest anyone think he's throwing himself on the floor kicking and screaming at age 9, LOL! He hasn't done that since he was 2, and I'd chase him around the house trying to capture his "fit" on film (screaming "Don't say Cheese Mom!" like something out of "The Exorcist").

Anyway, his "tantrum" was more sullenness and slamming his door, and choosing not to speak to anyone until I forced the issue. I still deem it "inappropriate", but I guess it was also "socially acceptable", LOL! Here's hoping he can still reap those long term benefits, .

BTW, at 9, some boys (and many girls) are getting some surges of adolescent hormone. That sounds like a good teen tantrum to me. With DS about to turn 13, we are getting a lot of them now, but they stared to rear their heads right around 10.

I'm DOK over the Lego Camp AND the normal ups and downs of life with siblings. As the Mom of an only, but sister to three, I really am jealous of families where it's just natural that someone else is shining today.



I remember that at age 9, DS12 was starting to have some early hormonal changes that made me wonder if the best of all possible worlds was to be a little 'not interested' socially before age 9, so that one can really enjoy stuffing their mind and be indiferent to the ages and interests of the kids around them, and then ride that wave of hormone-induced interest in socializing. I'm not saying that DS12 was interested in Girls at age 9, just that in my mind, being more interested in peers is a part of the hormonal ride.

I know that there are as many different ways to grow as there are children, but it was just a thought. For whatever reason, Celebrate that your son didn't much care for long enough to get him where he needed to be academically, AND Celebrate that now he is showing more of an interest in peers! Best of both worlds, YWIM?

Strap in, Dear! Rampant Emotionalism Ahead!
Grins,
Grinity

Dottie:

I hope I did not cast aspersions on your son by implication! My nephew used to go into his room and throw things - as I said - well into his teens. He was never threatening, but the intensity was alarming. You could hardly hope to meet a more pleasant, well-mannered young man now.

I just wanted to clarify to make sure, ! I'm glad your nephew got it all out of his system. My brother was a little intense like that, but I'm not sure he's completely over it just yet, .

Eeek Grinity/Acs, we have enough "RE" already in this house in DD11! DH will definitely be clueless if the boy starts in on it too.

Thanks for the post Dottie. This was interesting from many perspectives. Of course, when hormones start emerging here, I am still thinking those two words: convent, Spain.

Living in NYC, social interactions start as a To Do list very early, but I think I have just been very aggressive about socializing DD since birth, because I was such an older parent and didn't have a natural social group with children.

Now, I do not know if it was aggressive patterning, or genes, but DD is the ultrsocialite at 3. Luckily her BFF has a mother in the older category and we are doing family playdates and such. Even inviting them for a weekend at the beach.

What I notice is that DD feels very comfortable seeking slightly older playmates, if available. She also asks me to set social interactions up, like sleepovers. We do not have the convenient build in family that allows that early, hence the family playdate invitation at the beach.

I feel like I am rambling, but posting for others in my situation. With an only child, no family close by, I notice that it is easy to fall into casual social interactions and hard to teach long term more bonding relationships. It takes serious work from my end.

Ren

When my 10 yr old son starts to feel like he hasn't had enough time with friends and life isn't fair, we plan a party.

My son is in charge of making a list of snacks and he somehow remembers his friend's favorite snacks at the last party and he makes sure that we have enough variety so that all of his friends, especially the ones with food allergies, are happy.

I think one reason his friends like coming over is that we have an XBox in the guest room, a PS3 and a Wii in the family room, and a PS2 with Guitar Hero in his bedroom. In our computer room we have electric guitars and of course the computers, so if they get tired of doing something, they can find something else fun to play.

We are often asked by his friends when the next party will be. One of them told us that we had a really fun house and he told my son that he is lucky to be the only child at home when my son had been feeling kind of sad that he didn't have any brothers or sisters to play with and he is homeschooled and it wasn't fair that he was born with a mild disability that makes it impossible for him to play the sports that most of the kids around here play. My son felt really good that his friend actually thought he was lucky.

The kids don't spend the entire time playing games when they are here. I hang out in the kitchen with the snacks and these kids will even sit down and talk to me for a while because, like my son, they like to talk to adults. One of them always tells me about the book he is currently reading. They are really good kids, all in GT at public school, and good friends for my son. They understand and like his sense of humor.

I think it is time for us to plan another party.