That's great Doodlebug. You'll have to know how it goes!

I wish we weren't so cheap. I just feel at this point, the $$$ for us is better spent on homeschooling stuff and extra classes. With the free testing we've had done through the school system and research, I feel pretty comfortable with where DS falls and it doesn't appear he has anything else going on in terms of LD or 2E issues. If we were planning on negotiating a school system for the long term though it would be a whole different ball game. Although, some school systems don't honor IQ test data anyway. I'm sure we'll do some talent search stuff when we get to that age.

Oh, kimck, believe me the cost is definitely a consideration for us. Not an easy thing. We are testing, again, because we need more answers. The psychologist who first tested MrWiggly two years ago told me that given recent events, behaviors and test scores she would recommend re-testing at this point. She felt his SB5 scores were low and thinks the results will be more stable now (at age 7.5) and agreed that we need more input to help us with behaviors. So we just made the decision to go to Dr. Ruf for a different perspective. My husband really hated the idea of more testing at first but finally agreed that we needed the answers to help us in terms of school and behaviors. Although he's hoping the scores will show ME that we need to move to another state on behalf of MrWiggly's education!

I'm on board with you there, my dear killjoy. The holistic approach seems to fit well with my family. I did give both girls an online personality profile and it was dead on. The girls are literally polar opposites. Then I read the descriptions to them and asked them if they thought it was describing them.

A big yes! And yes, I am very interested to hear how Dr. Ruf helps Mr. Wiggly. I wish you the best of luck and safe travels.

Here's the child personality quiz link, someone has posted it here before:

http://www.personalitypage.com/kids.html

It's all about what you need at the time. If you know that the schools aren't worth the slog to you, and you don't really need more testing data for any other other purpose, then I think you're 100% right to spend the money elsewhere, kimck. We're certainly done with testing DS7 for that very reason. Maybe another WJ-3 after a couple more years of homeschooling to be sure he's making sufficient gains. But that's it.

Now, DS4 is getting tested the second he steps foot in public-school K. We'll get the free testing and then (hopefully) we will be better equipped to decide what to do about 1st grade for him.

I could totally see that Doodlebug! I feel pretty lucky DS hit the ceiling on his school's screener in kindergarten. He could have so easily had a bad day on that group test and we'd be scratching our heads right now.

And thanks for the validation 'Neato! I like the use of the word "holistic". And P.S. I hope you're keeping us up to date on your situation for fall!

And PS thanks for that link again! It just totally nailed DS (ENP).

I think I will have our library do an inter-library loan for it, because it really does sound like it would be an interesting read and maybe help us with a general idea of where he places on the spectrum. We're kind of doing things backwards, since school was such a disaster. I tried to get the data to help illuminate the behaviors/abilities I was seeing, but the school was refusing. Then my mommy gut kicked in and said that regardless of what his IQ was he was drowning at school and the only thing I could think to do without scores was to bring him home (there's a public gifted school here, but it requires IQ scores).

So, now I'm trying to go back and fill in the blanks- Why was school such a disaster for him? Why is he capable of learning things not from thin air, but in insanely large gulps? Fine, he's gifted, but is he "will never be able to thrive in public school" gifted or is this a personality issue we need to work through (he says he doesn't ever want to go back, that the next time he goes to a school it will be college)?

All of these questions and a full scale assessment is just financially not feasible in the near future. I'm hoping that with my observations not just as his mother, but as his teacher and then resources like this board and books like Dr. Ruf's I'll be able to find some answers even if we won't know everything. But, it's hard to tell whether books just say what I want to hear or are actually sound resources, so I thought I'd check before I got too excited!

I love hearing everyone's stories and experiences, it really does help that even if I can't fully identify with DS with all the kids (because you guys' kids are amazing!), I at least see something of him in there and it feels a little less crazy and lonely.

Mamaandmore -- I hope you get something useful out of Ruf. My only concern with her is that she defines these categories which may be very useful to you if your kid fits, but may be very confusing to you if your kid doesn't fit anywhere. I like Miraca Gross' book on exceptional children better because she just describes oodles of very, very smart kids and their educational pathways without any attempt to make categories of LOG, which, for me, don't bear any resemblance to my kids.

If Ruf was the first book I'd ever read on giftedness, I think I'd have been seriously confused. It would have made me question whether my kids were gifted at all because they were physically slow and talked late. The slowest to meet early milestones tests the highest (and behaves that way too at 7.5 yo). So my kids just seem anywhere from not gifted to level 5 depending on what trait I look at, and that doesn't help me at all. I liked Miraca Gross' book because it gave me a "feel" for a range of kids and I could imagine where mine fit on her spectrum.

And finally, I urge caution on ever defining a kid as "will never be able to thrive in public school" based on just tests or LOG. When I started down this path and pursued testing, I found it useless due to ceiling issues, and then I tried to hard to answer exactly the same question -- is my kid 1/1000 (where I might tell him to cope with school) or 1/1,000,000 (where it may just be really hard for him to make school work and maybe we need to think about homeschooling or moving somewhere for HG schools)? I finally decided that I couldn't find answers to those questions from any source. Turns out for us, the kid who tests most out there did fine with public school for the first few years with some accommodations and loved the chaos and social aspects of it. Another kid, HG+, had a tough time adjusting to school and dealing with other kids his age. It seems more about personality to me. One DS plays chess in his head or imagines science experiments to do later or replays video games and plans later battles when bored. The other DS *loses* it and hates, hates, hates the waiting for others to get done. Since you have school experience and already know it was a disaster, no doubt finding some sense of level matters a great deal to you -- but it may not help you answer your questions. If I'd relied on Ruf or school adjustment, I'd have guessed LOG for my kids that I think would be wrong based on test results.

Confusing stuff, eh?

But if the kid is playing chess in his head, is school really working for him? I'd argue no.

He may be compliant, but his needs aren't being met, and some not-great habits are forming...

Gratified, that sounds a lot like my experience with Ruf's levels and my DS. My DD4 is more likely to fall into her levels cleanly.

And I totally agree with the fit into public school being a personality thing. I know of non-GT kids that are as miserable as DS7 in our public schools as he is. My daughter however would love it, I'm quite sure. Is definitely all about the individual kids and so it is hard to make any sense out of the levels. Like someone else said, if your HG+ child is enjoying school and happy you're much less likely to go to someone like Dr. Ruf.

I kind of feel like it doesn't matter if DS is the 1 in 100 or the 100,000 kid (or 1 in 20 kid for that matter). If he's not learning in school and is miserable, time for a change.