My son apparently "disengaged" from the classroom by spending up to 30 minutes every morning sharpening a pencil. And we didn't find out about this behavior until AFTER school was over. We were told that he had been doing this for at least the last 9 weeks of school, perhaps most of the last semester, according to the principal. Why the teacher thought this was nothing to tell the parents about is beyond me. And why she allowed it to continue is beyond me even further! It's pretty clear to me that he *is* one of those kids who is checking out and missing important stuff.

He is not a daydreaming sort of kid but one who actively looks around for something interesting when he's bored. It was somewhat disruptive in class as he was bored most of the time. Just this morning he told me that he hates school because he has to do homework "about stuff I already know." His achievement scores indicate that he could possibly be skipped again to 4th grade for the fall but the principal stated "we can't just keep putting him with older kids...and we don't have the resources to teach him any other way." When I suggested that he needed further differentiation and faster pace for curriculum he just nodded and made a note on his paper.

Dr. Ruf makes generalizations about LOG and schooling. But she also considers the personality into it as well. She also looks at the type of school - there's a whole section in her book that classifies schools in terms of programming and opportunities, demographics and such. Gratified, it sounds like your children have been in a much different situation than my son. He was accelerated but last year had a teacher who didn't really care about him, never noticed or appreciated his abilities and even seemed to take pleasure at times in pointing out his faults. And she certainly wasn't interested in communicating with us.

When it is a mismatch you've got to do something. So we've chosen to use Dr. Ruf's expertise to help us figure this all out. I was taken by her comment to me about my son's refusal to go to school last fall that perhaps he is lonely. That thought had never occurred to me. He *seems* happy in terms of friends but his responses on the Social Support Scale he completed indicate that perhaps his friendships are superficial and maybe he's actually yearning for more connection. I'm not sure. I just know there are pieces of him that my husband and I just don't understand. I'm hopeful this testing will help us out.

Me too! If he had a teacher that took a little satisfaction when she was able to "knock him down a peg". That is an abuse.

There are certain words we don't like to hear, like abuse. And perhaps disengage is one of those sensitive words too. Perhaps certain words have such a negative connotation that we avoid using them. And perhaps we don't like to hear other people using them either. If a word provokes a visceral feeling, that doesn't mean we should avoid using it. Actually, I think that's a good time to ask ourselves why. Perhaps it lies with different understandings of definition. I don't know.

But no quotes about it. Mr. Wiggly standing at the pencil sharpener, sharpening his pencil for 30 minutes at a time is Mr. Wiggly disengaging from his class. I'm sorry you had such a bad teacher.

Mr. Wiggly's teacher sounds a lot like C-dog's teacher last year. I actually dropped in and peered in the window unannounced to see what was going on. I saw a circle time story with C-dog sitting way in the back, far from the group with a look of pure pain and sadness. Practically a quivering lip. After school I asked the teacher in an upbeat way: "So how was C-dog today, she seems a little sad?"
"OH NO!, Not at all!" "She had a wonderful day and was very happy?".
She's either severely clueless or simply evil. Haven't figured out which.

In any event, call it what you wish, do with it what you may.


We aren't always going to understand our kids, they are their own little persons! I'm sure Dr. Ruf will be able to give some things to work with in order to help Mr. Wiggly.

Who knows, maybe I'll be taking C-Dog to see her in the future!

She is mean.

I am probably going to sound crazy, but I guess that's nothing new for me...

My ds8 is a dreamer. Big time. he is also a doodler, like his mom.

I think that daydreaming is a massively important part of the creative process...the way we humans come up with some of our biggest ideas!!

I am not advocating for a kid being bored to tears in school, but I do encourage my son to feel comfortable about daydreaming, and doodling.

Since he loves to draw anyway, and often finishes his work earlier than other kids, I am ok with his stuff coming back with lots of drawings on it. I do emphasis that he's got to get the work done first, however! So far at least, no complaints from teachers.

When we're driving I usually try to engage him in conversation but sometimes he'll tell me very politely that he'd rather just daydream than chat. This can be a bit frustrating for me, but usually I am ok with it...I dont know if this is really an 'approved' concept but I do think it's a good skill to have.

I do think it's a good skill to have. Unfortunately my son refused to do it. I think he had the issue early on of daydreaming (making up math problems in his head) then he would miss instructions and not know what to do. This was negative feedback for him on daydreaming. I wish he had some coping skills to help get through the day. The psych taught him breathing exercises but I don't think he does them enough for them to become truely effective.

I tend to agree with Chris. Unless the situation is harmful for a child, a little bit of distraction isn't the worst educational outcome. Some of my best insight into patterns in calculus and my best creative writing came during class time. Although, if this is a normal occurance and causes disruptions, it might be time for a different strategy.

DW and I read the Ruf/Gross books over the weekend.

The books confirm what we are being told by our nanny and friends and by what we see when we compare Mr W ( 7m4d) to peers or even much older kids.

Frankly, between his behavior now and the trajectories mapped in the Ruf/Gross books, its a bit overwhelming.

The books at least give us a roadmap on what to expect because the regular baby books don't fit anymore.

I also just finished up the book (after flipping back and forth through it for the last week), and it was a very interesting read. The thing that was most enlightening was seeing DS4 and DD23mo in some of the upper level kids. I just don't think of them as gifted as DS6 because they didn't have his really early verbal abilities.

I even went back and looked at our home videos and the baby books. It's amazing the things I've forgotten! I remembered that DS6 was saying a couple of simple words at 6 months, I had completely forgotten the video of him at 2.5 months sitting with my mom staring at her mouth and desperately trying to imitate her talking but only managing to get out "ah-goo". That went on for well over half an hour (the video even stops and starts, so his attention span was longer than mine, lol).

I'm still not really clear on exactly which level DS6 fits because while he's now a couple to several years ahead in all academic skills, he only really started talking and reading early (and even the reading wasn't until his 5th birthday). I mostly see him as a 3 with a bit of 4 in him, except that I don't think he did any really precocious math or reading. There was video of him counting the Easter eggs and naming their colors at 26 months, but that's not so unusual I don't think. I also know he had most of his board books memorized by then and I was reading chapter books to him at night, but again, nothing I would really consider so extreme. So, is that the distinction between 1/2 level and 3/4/5 level- that the kids in the upper levels did everything super early or is it that once they picked them up they zoomed ahead?

All in all, I'm glad I had the library get it for me, I think if I owned it I would be tempted to obsess, lol.

This is an non-professional opinion of course , but as someone who didn't think their child was truly GT before kindergarten because he didn't willingly read, I think the 2nd is at least an option. I can't tell you what level he reads at 7 because he reads whatever he wants - the newspaper, encyclopedias, comics, jr. high chapter books, back to 3rd grade chapter books.

I think LOG is a combination of speed of learning vs. exposure to a concept. Parents tend to expose their young kids to stuff they enjoy (or value). My son was more math and science precocious as a preschooler, but we just tended to do that kind of stuff at home. Not that we didn't read with him. We did, but we went from board books to chapter books. I never thought of exposing him to books he could try to read. By the time I got around to that, he was reading chapter books within months.

I was actually at a GT related meeting last night and they offer classes for HG+ kids. They were willing to use a definition of operating 3 or more grade levels above their age as a definition for HG if you didn't have test scores. I'm thinking that would correspond to levels 3,4,5.

Rumor has it that this is what DITD wants to see on the DYS applications, too--3 or more grade levels above age.

And I agree (as usual, kimck!) that both kinds of GT kids exist: those who did everything super early those who zoomed ahead once they picked something up.

Ruf's book was very important to me, but I always like to caution people NOT to use her explanation of levels to try to "rule out" GTness, only to "rule in" kids. If your child resembles the kids she describes, I think you probably have an HG+ child. If not, you may well still have an HG+ child!

Kids are individuals and they present as GT in different ways. Not all are early. Ruf's lists are one tool, but not the only tool.