Yup. This was my point, too. If boys can't do what's required for school, then maybe the problem is with school!

5- and 6yo kids can learn stuff without sitting all day. So do that!

Too true! DH and I laugh about kids in elementary needing to shave!

I agree Bianca. Over half of the summer birthday kids that started with DS in K were held back a year and repeated K. (The next-door neighbors twins included) So it does depend on the particular kid. I just think the school should be the one to decide these things, based on the particular child, and not the parent who is trying to relive the glory days of their youth through their child.

That's exactly my fear.

One of the mom's around here who is holding back her very bright DD gave reasons as "she's a little too bossy" and mom also didn't want to have DD be just one grade behind DS. I don't understand the one grade apart argument. What's that all about? I could see a problem if they were in the same grade, but huh?

My first grade teacher always said a child can have one bad year in elementary; bad teacher, behaviourial problems, etc.; but it better not be first grade because that sets the tone for the rest of the school years. My first grade teacher is now 97, and kindergarten was not in place at the school I started. That thought has been around a long time.

We're talking bad 3 yr. old preschool, not great 4 yr. old preschool, bad K, bad 1st, bad 2nd. Hopefully, that thought has been replaced by more current thinking...

Here's hoping a great 3rd grade HSing will help create some resiliency and the trend will be reversed.

I can see both sides of it with DS.... On the one hand it would have been completely ridiculous on the academic side to put him in K or 1 at the "appropriate" time, and nevermind a year later (birthday just making the cutoff). But on the other hand, I don't think he would have enjoyed K or 1 early or on time either. It's not that he's immature, really, but definitely introverted and likes his personal space. Lots of noise and groups of kids and pushing and shoving isn't really his cup of tea.... and the big joke around here when he would have gone to K was that he would have lasted about 2 hours before yelling "OKAY everyone just take two BIG steps that way!"

Up until maybe last year (barely 8) he did best with other kids in small groups and in short periods of time (1-3 hours). And he did best in especially well-controlled situations -- orderly, predictable, quiet, etc. Add to it that until last year his abilities were WAAAAAAY variable (great in math, not so great in writing, etc.) -- I can kind of see in him the "leveling out in third grade" effect, but not in comparison to other kids, just in his own stride. He is much more "level" himself now (just not very "third grade" LOL). And I think he'd be fine in school now.

So I guess what I'm saying is I would hate to have had to make a choice at 5. There wasn't really a good one for him in either direction, and even if we found something that worked then, I don't think it would be the same something that would work now. What I wish is that the whole system were more flexible, especially in the early years, and that we didn't have to pick a single grade or class that fit for everything... which for us just comes back to homeschooling.

I have a general problem with the length of the school day in the US. It's ridiculous that kids in K and elementary grades are expected to be at school for almost as long as high school kids. This makes no sense to me at all.

There is lots of red-shirting around here as well. I saw some kids mature enormously during the year they were kept back, but I also saw others learn so much that they will be extremely bored when they get to K. I think the decision has to be done on individual basis. DS5 is one of the youngest kids in his grade, not that it would matter anymore now.

The story about the father and his "only" 3rd in the class son is unbelievable. Poor kid.

Sometimes I think that situations in which a child would really benefit from redshirting are few and far between. If the typical K class is supposedly taught to the middle 90% of the curve, there's only 5% on the bottom end, just like on the top, i.e., just a few kids. Then again, the issue is really not core IQ levels but rate of development. One tricky aspect, as we all know, is that GT kids tend to be asyncronous, just one of the many reasons a GT kid might not fit well in a typical K classroom. I agree that the issue may be more with the structure of the school environment than with the kid. I don't remember anyone talking about redshirting when we were kids - it was around, as I'll discuss below, but the kids who were a different age for grade were few and far between.

My mother recently told me they had considered redshirting my brother, who was short with an Oct. birthday. But they didn't - someone tested him and said it would be a crime to make him wait. He didn't achieve a more normal height until the end of high school, so waiting to start K wouldn't have helped him anyway. My mom's point was that although it was tough for him to be the shortest boy for so many years, he developed other personality traits in ways he might not have but for his small stature, and that these traits are important for his current career (kinda like everyone has their cross to bear, but with a positive spin).

Like my brother, I was often the shortest in my class, but now he's about 10" taller than me LOL. Obviously it's different to be short and female, but throughout my life I usually have preferred that people underestimate me. I have always felt that conferred an edge, in life in general (from meeting random guys in bars to negotiating with opposing counsel). I don't think there's anything wrong with being the youngest in a class in that regard, when the intellectual background is present.


With this type of situation, there's also the possibility of an LD scenario, and lack of reading ability in K, or prior to K, does not necessarily speak to intelligence (my DD7 is a case in point). I'd hate to have a smart kid held back due to an LD, and end up stuck that way, a grade back, for twelve years. I guess in that sense I see similarities between redshirting and grade retention - I vaguely recall that research shows retention not to be very effective because it usually doesn't address the core cause of problems. Sometimes another year of development might do the trick, but it's got to be hard to predict that ahead of time.

The other shame about redshirting is that school administration doesn't seem to bat an eye at these kids being different age for grade, and yet gives GT parents such a hard time about acceleration.

just my two cents