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#22001 - 08/01/08 05:31 PM Girls as good as boys in math - research article
bianc850a Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 268
Loc: California

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#22002 - 08/01/08 05:40 PM Re: Girls as good as boys in math - research article [Re: bianc850a]
Kriston Offline
Member

Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 3779
Loc: here! Where else? (Duh!)
This little note (the part I bolded) was disturbing to me:

Quote:
The researchers looked at the average of the test scores of all students, the performance of the most gifted children and the ability to solve complex math problems. They found, in every category, that girls did as well as boys. (To their dismay, the researchers found that the tests in the 10 states did not include a single question requiring complex problem-solving, forcing them to use a national assessment test for that portion of their research.)


TEN states!

*sigh*

I am glad they're finally figuring out that girls can do math though. It's about time!!!

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#22003 - 08/01/08 05:42 PM Re: Girls as good as boys in math - research artic [Re: bianc850a]
Dazed&Confuzed Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 750
Quote:
(To their dismay, the researchers found that the tests in the 10 states did not include a single question requiring complex problem-solving, forcing them to use a national assessment test for that portion of their research.)


Yep, gotta pull out the Singapore Math Challenging word problems books this weekend!

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#22004 - 08/01/08 05:44 PM Re: Girls as good as boys in math - research artic [Re: Dazed&Confuzed]
bianc850a Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 268
Loc: California
That is why math competitions are so important.

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#22005 - 08/01/08 05:51 PM Re: Girls as good as boys in math - research artic [Re: bianc850a]
Kriston Offline
Member

Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 3779
Loc: here! Where else? (Duh!)
I'm wondering which 10 states.

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#22006 - 08/01/08 05:53 PM Re: Girls as good as boys in math - research artic [Re: Kriston]
Dazed&Confuzed Online   content
Member

Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 750
lol Kriston we cross-posted!

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#22007 - 08/01/08 05:55 PM Re: Girls as good as boys in math - research artic [Re: Dazed&Confuzed]
Kriston Offline
Member

Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 3779
Loc: here! Where else? (Duh!)
Hey, great minds wonder about the same disturbing stats!

smile

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#22008 - 08/01/08 07:14 PM Re: Girls as good as boys in math - research artic [Re: Kriston]
incogneato Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 1751
Loc: Living Room
Well at least NCLB is good for SOMETHING. smile

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#22010 - 08/01/08 07:25 PM Re: Girls as good as boys in math - research artic [Re: Kriston]
BaseballDad Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 67
This is such an interesting - and politically dangerous - issue. Larry Summers, the former president of Harvard, made his job much more difficult than it needed to be by provocatively and stupidly discussing it in a ham-handed way. But the issue also shows how poor journalists are at reporting scientific data. The NYT article reports that:

Originally Posted By: NYT
The researchers looked at the average of the test scores of all students, the performance of the most gifted children and the ability to solve complex math problems. They found, in every category, that girls did as well as boys.


But that's just not what the actual article says. The article does say that there is no statistically significant difference between the average performance of boys and girls. But it says that the variance is greater for boys than for girls. That means, pace what the NYT reports, that there are more boys in the upper tail (and presumably in the lower tail, too) of the distribution. When it comes to the most gifted mathematics students, in other words, and presumably the most incapable as well, the boys are overrepresented. Interestingly, the variance ratio (the ratio of male variance to female variance) differs by ethnicity. The article does not give us the full detail of the data, but it reports that for whites in grade 11 in Minnesota the variance ratio for those in the 99th percentile is 2.06. That means that there are roughly twice as many boys in that category as girls. By contrast, for Asian Americans in grade 11 in Minnesota the variance ratio at the 99th percentile is 0.91. In other words, there are slightly more girls than boys in that category. Still, when all the ethnicities are grouped together,

Originally Posted By: Science
All VRs, by state and grade, are >1.0


The variance ratio is less than many have assumed, and not nearly significant enough to account for the fact that, for example, only 15% of the current students in engineering Ph.D. programs are women. But the article does report a difference in the tails. It makes no claim whatsoever to explaining this difference: it could be due to social typing, innate difference, or some combination of these and other factors. Obviously the significance of the results differs dramatically depending upon what causes them. But the main thing is that it's a subtle issue that the journalists are running roughshod over. Any discussion of the topic needs to go beyond simplistic cheerleading.

BB

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#22011 - 08/01/08 08:19 PM Re: Girls as good as boys in math - research artic [Re: BaseballDad]
acs Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 721
I think you make a good point about the data. I had read another article on a longitudinal study of mathematically gifted youth that suggested that boys tend to be more focused in their pursuits, working intensely on a specific area or two and really excelling, while girls tend to be more global, making connections between multiple (often apparently unrelated) fields. Basically, boys went for more depth where girls went for more breadth. This may explain some of the discrepancies you point out.

Here is a brief quotation from the article:
Quote:
although more mathematically precocious
males than females entered math-science careers,
this does not necessarily imply a loss of talent because the
women secured similar proportions of advanced degrees
and high-level careers in areas more correspondent with
the multidimensionality of their ability-preference pattern
(e.g., administration, law, medicine, and the social sciences).
By their mid-30s, the men and women appeared to
be happy with their life choices and viewed themselves as
equally successful (and objective measures support these
subjective impressions).


The full article can be found here http://www.vanderbilt.edu/Peabody/SMPY/DoingPsychScience2006.pdf


Edited by acs (08/01/08 08:24 PM)

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