I just went to a Summer Institute for the Gifted with keynote speaker Jim Webb. He said that the bell curve actually has a bump at about 150 level and there are more people in that category than the perfect bell would suggest. I think I believe this. Our PEGS program (>145) had 21 students in grades K-5 last year, and there were probably 1 or 2 who opted not to go. So, 22 kids (in specific age bracket) from a population of about 60,000 (and it's NOT a high tech, professional community where you might think that'd skew it). According to the statistics, I thought it should be more like 6 kids, right? Maybe we should really only be looking at the number of kids in the district (about 10,000) in which case it should be 1 kid. Or maybe I'm not remembering the projected frequency correctly.

Well 145 is statistically 1:1000 or there abouts (1:741 per the charts, but 146 is 1:924). That would suggest a PG population of about 60 for your 60,000. The 1:10,000 number that DITD quotes is actually more like an IQ of 156. I think things tend to get "rarer" when you are looking at a multi-entry condition (like 145 in IQ and achievement), but it's still more common than 1:10,000. When you allow for "half" scores too (VCI vs PRI), you increase your population as well.

Oddly enough, I know of 3 kids in our district of 3000+ that land in that range for a full scale.

Why is 146 considered PG and not EG?

Oh I'm just going by the DYS requirements. I gave up on the HG/EG/PG line drawing a long time ago, ! Insert what ever label you prefer into that posting.

Since the current tests we have can't really distinguish well at the tails, it's pretty arbitrary where the cut-off for each LOG is. But I'm with Dottie: I'd go with DYS requirements since they are an accepted expert on PG kids.

It's not ideal because the tests are inaccurate. But until we have a better test, it's the best we can do.

So you'd say DYS is PG and if you just miss that, you're HG rather than MG? I was thinking 145+ is HG. Or is what Dotty saying that 145 on both IQ and achievement gives PG hat rather than a HG hat?

Dottie misspoke in using "PG".....Dottie was only referring to the 145 mark, whatever anyone chooses to call it, .

I think that IQ test score numbers are too arbitrary, some people only look at VCI, some only at PRI, some only at GAI. I read a description somewhere that I liked that said something like:

(in academic terms)
1-2 years above grade level = MG
3-4 years above grade level = HG
5-6 years above grade level = EG
above that = PG

Again, arbitrary, depending on the level of curricula your area uses but it fits my own personal definition better.

I certainly didn't say that! I was saying the tests are not good for what we're having to use them for, so trying to draw hard-and-fast lines between levels is kind of impossible, and probably the best we can do is to follow an accepted policy like DYS's. (Though that's certainly not ideal.)

We're not big on drawing lines around here. It's why "HG+" is the accepted term on this forum. Personally, I think that's a good policy.

Even using +X grade levels would need to be "fine-tuned" depending on the age of the child. Working 5-6 years above level is phenonmenal in early elementary, but really "status quo" for any GT child in middle school and above, at least as far as GE testing goes. Granted, it takes on a whole new meaning if you are talking about actually taking college level courses in 7th/8th grade.