Okay, all you math and science whizzes out there, how about some suggestions for making math fun for DS8. EPGY math just killed his love of math. He is interested in the animated CTY Elementary Problem Solving I/Destination Math course, but I'm thinking he needs fun math activities, too. Also, he loves science and will need math for science. (He is completely self-educated in science so far, thanks to the Science Channel, mostly). In EPGY, he liked geometry and fractions - he's a visual-spatial type. His big objection has been the calculations. I'd like a way for him to absorb those without realizing he's "working" and other things to make problem solving fun. Thanks in advance for the help!

hmm. Well, we play Yahtzee at our house -- it's fun for probability and for multi-digit adding, though your ds is likely past that.

I'll be interested to read any responses! KG loves doing math that's intuitive for him (which is quite a bit) but rather balks at sitting and "learning" anything, especially on paper.

Following with interest!

Oh, and has he done any Rainforestmaths.com? Not sure what level your ds is working at, but that has a variety of topics that are presented simply and visually.

Hi, Mia,

I thought I posted but it didn't go through. I don't remember Yahtzee, but I'll check it out. And DS is definitely not beyond it -he hasn't done any math this summer and he does not have ready recall of basic math facts.

btw, Rainforestmaths.com is down b/c of illegal copying/access, whatever that was referring to...

Thanks for the tips!

According to a list I'm on, Rainforest Math is gone, perhaps only temporarily, perhaps for good. I haven't gone on it to confirm, but they're pretty reliable about that sort of thing, so I think it's probably accurate.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news there, but I didn't want you to have an afternoon planned around the website only to discover that it's not there anymore.

To the original question...

You might consider joining the Living Math group, questions, assuming MORE e-mail isn't a problem for you. It's a busy group, and I just hit <delete> on a lot of it. But sometimes good stuff comes my way. And the whole point of the site is that math should be ALIVE, part of life, not some isolated thing that kids hate. That can help with the "I hate math" issue, I think.

www.livingmath.net

The link to join the Yahoo group is on that page.

At least it's probably worth poking around the site a bit.

I wish I had better ideas for you!

Questions - I'm dealing with the same issue w/ DS. He says math is boring yet he can't tell me what he wants done differently. He says he wants harder math but not too hard. He has very little stamina with anything though that requires a bit of effort. I've bought some Zaccaro books which he seems to like. He likes games so we play Rightstart Math games. I have Yahtzee and will definitely take that out!!!

He also loves living math books such as "What's the Angle Pythagoras?" "The Librarian who measured the earth" etc but your DS8 might be beyond those. We're also doing the history of math which he enjoys.

Cool website, I just bookmarked it. I've seen that there comes a point when math really isn't that fun at the elementary level. I think DD8 didn't love math when she hit multiplication.
I did do some things with geometry, but followed some advice I was given about making her plod through and memorize the facts before going too far beyond.
She likes Aleks Quick Tables. They add the element of speed, which makes it more exciting, then after a certain amount of work the child can access games in which the use the facts they know to "win".
I was advised that it would be a good idea to get her to the point of instant recall for mult. and div. facts because everything that came next was going to draw on that.

That's what I've been seeing so far, but also I think by algebra and beyond it becomes more interesting for them again, at least I hope so.

This has been a tough problem for me, and I find myself stumbling along doing the best I can.

At times maths is fun, but I confess that I stay away from trying to make learning fun overall. Learning is work --- sometimes hard work. I fear that putting too much effort into calling or making it fun risks inspiring kids to shut down when it isn't fun anymore.

The fun part for me is the initial thrill of a new idea and the end result of figuring something out and in my case (I hope) implementing a real solution to a real problem.

So, that said: I have two goals when I teach my kids: 1. teach them that if they keep trying, they can understand something that looks "too hard" initially, and 2. don't make them hate learning by pushing #1 too much. Easy to write, hard to implement.

With maths, the understanding with my 8 year old is that we do something twice a week for 30-60 minutes, depending. Sometimes he doesn't want to do maths, but there are times when he suddenly gets interested in spite. For example, I was teaching him to multiply polynomials the other day and he complained initially. Then, suddenly, the penny dropped and the details fell into place. At this point, he became very engaged and got right down to finishing the problems I had given him. Suddenly, that Impossible Problem was not so difficult. Big smile.

Val

A small essay on

"Why we do mathematics"

"Mathematicians are just like human beings. They don't enjoy adding up columns of numbers or balancing their checkbooks. They don't multiply 398 by 975 for fun. They do math because it makes life easier. Doing math is the easiest way to make sure that our bridges don't fall down or our airplanes don't crash"


I found this on one of the Life of Fred books. I typed it and taped it to my dd's computer. Most of the time she enjoys math, once in a while she doesn't. When that happens this small essay reminds her why it is important to know math.

I think anything we *can* make fun, we should, with the understanding that not everything in life is a party. But I don't see the reason to stress ickiness in learning. One of the hallmarks of a GT child is that learning IS often fun for them. That's a big pro, so I see no reason to make it a con.

That's not to say that learning is or should be always EASY. Fun and easy are often mutually exclusive, frankly. Overcoming a good challenge is what makes a person feel good about what she has accomplished.

So I guess I'm with you at the end of your post, but not necessarily at the beginning of your post, Val.

Especially when faced with a child who is deciding that he hates math, I think it pays to find the joy there, as questions is doing. The "joy" may wind up being more challenging material, it may be a more bouncy package (graphics, games, etc.), or it may be just a different approach. But I think when you have a child--especially a mathy child!--who is deciding that math is icky, it is wise to shift gears and find more fun.

FWIW...

You know, Val, I agree with this. You kind of put into words what I try to do. Number one is very important for my children because we have been attempting to ward off some pretty significant perfectionism issues. I know that if perfectionism becomes an ingrained habit, it could be pretty counterproductive to their success as adults, and even as kids sometimes!

Especially for youngest daughter I worked on this over the summer. She would literally shut down if something didn't immediately(and I truly mean immediately) register. Then her self confidence was affected, she's smart enough to know she's smart but that conflicted with her belief that she should know everything right away, KWIM.

So there were a few tears, but gently I would ask her to just relax, and think. I showed her how to slow down her breathing to self calm. Wait a minute, then look at it again. In most cases, she was able to figure it out, then she would acually laugh and say it was easy and continue!

I think she was developing an extreme fear of "failure" and I put that in quotes because I'm still not sure what she thinks failure is. I did, however, know we were starting to travel down a bad path and I really think whatever was happening in school last year really exaserbated this for her.

I would not ever push them to learn something that they were not ready to learn or to the point of significant distress. But I do think my mommy instincts are pretty good at knowing where this is for my children.

Children develop self esteem by facing a challenge that looks difficult, maybe not even sure if they can accomplish it. Then accomplishing it. Isn't that the best? Who can argure that it's not just an awesome way to develop great self-esteem. Most kids get that during the course of the school day at some point. I will argue, not so in most cases for HG(+) kids.