Debbie,

I am glad you got great results from Dr Ruf herself. I think the advise itself is even more worth it than the results itself. After all she has seen many, many gifted kids.

Hi everyone!
I am back at home (actually work right now!) and still digesting all the information. Dr. Ruf's report atually arrived at our house before we did! DH and I have both read it but are planning on sitting down tonight to discuss and list out options.

I don't even know where to start - except to say thanks for the support and pointing out my denial I told you guys how I have gone between "you're not THAT smart" and "How smart ARE you??" Well, now I have my answer! As time passes I'm finding more of the pride and less of the fear - I know that this news is so much better than what other parents face in terms of disabilities and difficulties. I definitely need to count my blessings on this one

The bottom line on the academic stuff is that MrWiggly needs "very flexible and individualized academic programming" per Dr. Ruf. She notes that his ability scores predict that, with the right instruction, he should be done with Algebra 1 and 2 by about 10 years old. She mentioned something about potentially ready for calculus by 12. Yikes! She really emphasized the need for us as parents to help provide the right opportunities and instruction. She doesn't feel that homeschooling is the best option for him because he is such an extrovert and thrives on groups. She also informed me that *I* wouldn't be the best teacher for him!! More on that later.

I've updated our principal on the report and left him a copy this morning. We'll be talking with him tomorrow, I think. Dr. Ruf suggested letting MrWiggly go to third grade for now with as much differentiation as they can offer but perhaps partial homeschooling for math or providing a tutor at the school, so he is working at his own pace and level for math. She felt that the math instruction is the priority. It was nice how she helped us prioritize and said to just work on getting the math instruction in place, then address the other needs.

We talked a lot about personality types and how MrWiggly's is apparently the "least preferred" by typical elementary school teachers (he's ENFJ). That combined with his ability make MrWiggly and typical public school a bad match. She wasn't surprised at all that he felt so unsupported by his teacher.

In terms of social and emotional well being, Dr. Ruf was concerned about MrWiggly needing "true peers." She feels that he will never find them in the small rural school he attends. I agree. She also pointed out that even in a gifted magnet school it will be the "luck of the draw" in terms of class assignments and whether he is in a class with anyone smarter. But he desparately needs to be with kids at and above his level. Dr. Ruf identified risks involved with E kids who are so perfectionistic and competitive. MrWiggly has already developed a pattern of needing to be the "best and smartest" and if he perceives that he can't be then he just gives up and does something easier and more fun. She feels that in the right setting with other GT kids he'll be motivated for achievement and gain some humility (both much needed!).

We talked at length about my relationship with MrWiggly and how the two of us (me: ENFJ, him: ENFP) just don't make a good pair in some situations. She pointed out how his intense emotional side pulls on my own to manipulate me and how my response to him, being a true "giver" is to baby him. My husband tried NOT to look smug, but I saw him snicker! That's why I'd be a bad teacher for MrWiggly.

Oh, I'm sorry, I've got a patient here now so gotta run. Sorry to cut it off, but I'll do another installment later!

Wow Deb, what I wouldn't give for some one-on-one time with a true professional in the field! That alone is as Mastercard says..."Priceless".

It sounds like you got a lot of great advice. And I can speak from the "other side" of that scary math prediction, and it's not so bad. And we'll actually accomplish that in a regular school. It can be done, though DS is definitely more "I" than "E", and perhaps a more..."appreciated" (tolerated?) personality type.

Hang in there! 20 years ago this would have been scary news indeed, but today....you have scattered, but great company. The number one thing I would tell you is that you are not alone.

How great! It's no secret that I REALLY like Dr. Ruf's book! So I'm very envious!

I have one caveat--which you should feel free to ignore, but I felt like I should mention since Dr. Ruf was pretty negative about homeschooling in your son's case.

There are those in the GT homeschooling community who argue that Dr. Ruf opposes homeschooling too often, ruling it out when it could, in fact, be a viable option if the right supports were put into place. I don't have enough evidence to take a position, but it does sound to me as if in your son's case, she ignored some possibilities and facts about homeschooling. Off the top of my head: 1) HSing can be a very social educational option that allows extroverts MORE time and opportunity for social contact, especially if the primary caregiver is also and extrovert, as you are, and 2) You would not necessarily have to be your son's primary teacher; many people use tutors or online classes to meet their kids' needs.

That's not to say that I think you should homeschool. From your previous posts, it has seemed like you enjoy your work and are not really interested in homeschooling. That's perfectly sensible.

I just wanted to let you know that Dr. Ruf's advice in this one particular area has been questioned before, and I can see some reason to question it in your son's case.

But as I said, feel free to ignore! If the professional advice you're getting matches your gut feel, I'd be the first to say that you should take that advice! Moms know!

So are you and Mr. Wiggly ENFJ's, and your husband and ENFP? Or is Mr. Wiggly and ENFP and you and ENFJ?

I love this stuff and just want to make sure I got it straight!

Again - I'm also testing envious!

I'm actually a bit surprised that Dr. Ruf is anti-homeschool much of the time. Especially considering the vibrant homeschooling GT community we're discovering here (same metro area as Dr. Ruf). They even offer co-op style homeschooling classes for HG+ kids. It is really more than I even expected. My son is definitely an extrovert. Embarrassingly so sometimes. He is an incredible smart alec right now and it's driving me nuts. I'm thinking our bigger homeschooling issue for us is being home enough to get some real work done.

But you know your situation and child best. And if I were in the midst of a career I loved, we may be making different decisions now. I'm sure you'll make the right decisions come what may. Especially armed with your new info.

Mom: ENFJ, Dad: INTJ/P, MrWiggly: ENFP (I think I mistyped in my previous post, hence some confusion on your part).
By the M-B descriptors that makes me "The Giver", DH is "The Scientist" or "The Thinker" depending on whether he's more J or P at any given time (I forget which is which right now) and son is "The Inspirer". Basically all this M-B stuff really affirmed why I need so much affirmation, why MrWiggly is so intense and why my DH just doesn't seem to care!! Not that he doesn't, BTW, just not his style to show it! Interestingly enough, DH leans just slightly toward INTJ, which the resources we got say occurs in only about 1% of the population. Now he's all full of himself as being so unique!

About the homeschooling advice, I really do agree with all of you. I think that homeschooling COULD be an option combined with the right social outlets and, most importantly I think, the opportunity to socialize and meet some "soulmates" who are at or above his level. That's what is going to be the hardest thing to do out here in the cornfields. DH could theoretically shut down his business or downsize it to allow for being the primary caregiver/homeschooler. But I think I'd have a hard time turning that much control over to him!!! (That ugly ENFJ thing again!)

Like I said, much to think about.......many options to consider.

Oh, and I haven't shared with you all that I am a Grandma again! My oldest DS and his wife just had a beautiful baby boy two weeks ago. Bright, active and alert...looking GT already!! We have three grandkids already from my step-daughter, but this one is "official" grandma-hood for me! I only wish they lived closer <sigh>

Oh, first things first....CONGRATULATIONS on the new grandbaby! How exciting!!!! LOL on the "looking GT already".

This explains a lot for me, ...


Can I email your DH when I get lonely?

First, YAY for grandparenthood! Congratulations!

Second, I chuckled when I read this:



because we had a roll-call some time back, and a large number of us who post here regularly are INTJs. I'm not sure it was the majority, but it was probably close to it! Certainly WAAAAAAY more than 1%! Lots and lots of Spocks on this board!

Debbie, I thought you would get a kick out of knowing that you're surrounded by us here. <Mwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!>



And finally, I don't want to besmirch Dr. Ruf's reputation or anything with my post. As I said, I'm a big fan of her book, and I'm not 100% sold that the criticism is fair or valid, though I would argue that she seems a bit too quick to rule out homeschooling in this one case. But (in true INTJ/Spock fashion!) I do think it's important to consider criticism of experts when making decisions based on that expert's advice, even if you ultimately decide the criticism is irrelevant, unfair or just plain wrong.

But I DON'T mean to be slinging mud at Dr. Ruf. I have a lot of respect for her. I do want that to be clear!

Hi Debbie,

I know you are sorting through a bunch of info and I don't really expect you to repeat it all, but I am so interested in personality types. You had mentioned the ENFP's were the least preferred types by elementary school teachers. I am curious about what traits are likely to cause problems--if you can remember, of course.