I would consider that public humiliation, not punishment (especially for forgotten homework!?!). I would be in the principal's office in a heartbeat if someone did that to my child.

We are new to the colors-and-consequences approach, and I agree that it is odd (and counterproductive) to cut back recess as a 'consequence' - after all, they only get 20 minutes a day to start with. What bothers me more is the kind of ritual humiliation entailed. The child must go to the front of the class and change his own color in front of everyone, and is, in effect, pilloried for the remainder of the day. DS found this upsetting (as would I), and we had a family meeting to tell him that our love for him was unaffected by the color of the day, and that as long as he tried to get along at school, we would help him sort out issues as they arose. I told him yellow was pretty good, actually - only one mistake!

Digressing a bit, Yesterday, we switched his backpack and forgot to give him his color chart (which the school, by the way, has never discussed with us). After school the teacher called to tell me he'd gone to yellow for hiding a piece of clay behind his back when she'd asked him for it (here, I fancy, you should imagine the theme from the exorcist playing in the background). Then, at the end of the day, he also called a girl a 'blockhead' (a la Lucy in Charlie Brown). We chatted and she said one favorable thing about him, but then concluded "I cannot tolerate disrespect towards me or the other children." I was taken aback by this comment and tone, and have since been trying to understand her severity.

We've been talking with a private school that takes a different approach. They insist on a consequence for every real rule infraction, but they make it short and swift (e.g., a short time-out), and the offender is asked to do something next day to make amends if there is a 'victim,' like write a note, draw a picture, or perform some kindness. Once the consequence has been administered, tho, it's subject over, let's move on to something else. I've thought about this approach for a day now, and I think it makes a lot of sense.

Kcab - thank you very much for that link. I know a number of people who will appreciate that article!

Our 1st grade teacher took away recess. And I never knew what was going on at school. I only got what I could drag out of DS. There was no school wide consistency. I would have loved a written explanation on how discipline in the classroom would work and a weekly behavioral report. Even a sentence would have been good.

Our kindergarten teacher had a green, yellow, red warning system. He was so great, it seemed he hardly needed a really strong disciplinary system. The kids adored him.

I like what Stuart Little has to say on the subject, when he agrees to teach a class as a substitute for a sick teacher:

"I'll make the material interesting, and the discipline will take care of itself."

This is purely out of curiosity. How do all of you handle it when your child gets in trouble at school? What do you say/do once they get home?

That Stuart Little is one smart cookie! Seriously, if teachers are banging their heads on the same issues day after day something needs to change. Maybe it's the disciplinary system or the teaching style. Maybe there is an issue with a particular child or children. A child who gets disciplined constantly is not going to feel very good about themselves, which only feeds the problem.

For a long time, DS would not tell us anything about his school life. We also often took the teacher's side automatically when issues arose. In retrospect, I'd say we were pretty out to lunch, parentally. Now we assure him of our love for him whatever happens, and then talk things through. If we feel he's erred, we try to explain why, how, and may even do a play acting game with him on the topic. If we're not sure, we take it up with the teacher. If we feel the teacher has erred, we seek a tactful way to talk the matter through with her.

BTW, DS now is willing to talk to us about his school days, which we feel suggests we are getting our act together with him.

Fitzi,

We had a similar problem with the "stop light" discipline in first grade. My DS (now 8) would give Mr. Wiggly a run for his money (or name) at that age. Add to that a dash of highly asynchronous development, rampant boredom, and complete social cluelessness and we did not have an overly fun year for first grade.

All kids started out the day on green. The first warning sent them to yellow, and, yes, there was the public humiliation of having to go up in class and change your card. The next warning sent you to red. They did not take away recess time in first grade. Sometimes there were phone calls home if you had too many reds in one week. And the teacher did provide some positive praise by rewarding the entire class if everyone stayed on green. I believe that she made some form of chain with giant paper clips, with each day that all of the kids stayed on green earning one clip. When the chain reached from the ceiling to the floor, the class got to have some form of special treat... a movie day, party or special treats.

The problem that I had with it was that the other kids in the class very quickly decided that my DS, who was viewed as outside of the norm anyway, was someone that they could pick on and "tattle" for an imaginary crime to send him to yellow or red. Now, I don't believe that my kid was a perfect saint and that every card change was another kid's fault. But there were several girls in the class who delighted in getting my son to change his card. I volunteered quite regularly in the classroom and observed it happening. By the end of the year, they were telling the teacher that he was saying swear words in class when he didn't know any swear words. So the policy has some definite holes in it that a non-observant teacher can fall for. And this particular teacher took any accusation ("Teacher, Little Johnny pushed me!") as absolute gospel. She did not have to witness it in order to send a kid up in front of the class for public humiliation. DS lost all respect and gave up on the system after having to change his card for something that he did not do.



Oh my, fitzi!!! I would ask why a simple infraction like that is disrespectful to herself or the other children? I would counter that this is a kid testing boundaries, and now he knows that this was inappropriate. Kids learn by making mistakes like that. <one of Kriston's famous shrugs needed here! > And it is the teacher's duty to gently teach boundaries and discipline, as well as reading and math. (without getting their knickers is a knot!) Now if it happens repeatedly, then I would say that, yes, it would be an issue of disrespect. But not on a single occurrence. And I would add that most kids are inherently respectful until the situation (or teacher) causes them to lose that respect. And for most gifted kids, a lack of truth, justice, or fairness in a system is the fastest way for them to lose respect.

Oh, sing it out, people! Sing it loud!!!

We might still be in the school system if DS7's 1st grade teacher had heard you...

It does seem a bit draconian, but I think the other systems described here pretty much amount to public humiliation, too. I'm not really defending this system, though. It is not very effective. Since the kids get red x's routinely, they don't seem to perceive it as a big deal. It doesn't seem to be any more damaging than timeout, or sitting with your head down during recess or other variations on that theme.

I've given it some thought, and I think that schools' hands are really tied when it comes to discipline. The only privilege they really have to take away is recess, and they have to apply the same consequences to everyone or they will be seen as unfair.

I am not too excited about really against rewards like class parties and buying candies from the teacher for behavior that should be the expected standard. I agree that taking away recess from wiggly kids who need to run off energy doesn't make much sense, but I'm not sure what else the school can take away.

If anybody has an idea for a fair, workable, effective, non-humiliating discipline system, I'd love to hear it! I'm not thrilled about the red x system myself but I've just sort of accepted it since I'm not sure what else can be done.