CFK - thank you for that reminder. I had posted the original post here after coming off reading some emails off of a listserv where there were some people who did seem to share that perspective that a child was not gifted unless she had a score 135+. It's so frustrating with cutoffs and such, which I know are needed on some level, for gifted programming that there are kids who may be more than capable but are turned away because their scores do not meet their criteria.

I think that's what bothers me most - that these kids aren't given a chance and for those who may have underlying issues, even less so. And my dd is one of those. Her school may not have gifted programming, but my concern is that now that we have these scores, the school will feel that they have no obligation whatsoever to give her enrichment of any kind. What if that little bit more/deeper/harder might motivate her to plug through the stuff that is difficult for her? They won't know if they don't try and now they may not have a reason to. And if her weaker areas are tested as the evaluator suggests and still found to be at grade level, nothing will be done for her there either. And so my dd will continue to struggle, albeit not a typical sort of struggle because she's obviously meeting grade-level standards as seen on the MAP testing. If it takes 3 hours to do something that should only take 20 minutes, then it's a very real and valid struggle.

Argh, rambling again. I'm sorry. This is just me having a bit of a mini-crisis.

FWIW, if you replace that 11 in Comprehension with the 14 in Information (alternate non-counting verbal subtest), her VCI jumps to 128 (VCI is considered by many to be a good "stand alone" peek at ability level). Replace the Block Design with something much higher and not impacted by the slower speeds, and negate the processing speed, you have scores VERY similar to one of my children, who is (ta-da!) "gifted".

My point there I guess is that it sometimes just boils down to one or two test scores, as far as schools are concerned. "Gifted" is really a continuum, that some Great Person blessed as 130+ at some historical moment.

From this data, I think your daughter is indeed gifted, but the bigger question/problem is her hesistancy and speed. Is this a real short circuit type thing within her brain? Or a personality/anxiety type issue? Regardless, I think you should pursue things from that aspect, perhaps even with a full neuro-psychological evaluation. I think her current "profile" warrants this, unless you had other testing done at the same time as the IQ testing. If you go through insurance, it could be totally covered.

A neuropsych eval typically consists of an IQ test, but also many other tests that address things like her processing skills and speed issues. From your other posts, it sounds like something else is going on here.

She's clearly extremely bright (gifted, intelligent word of choice , etc!) But this other issue might continue to hold her back.

I second what Dottie said. (I asked for the scores mostly because I know she can't resist them, and she's the expert! )

Your DD has got some pretty tasty spikes there in the PRI, with the 18 and the time-affected 19. I think you need to find out what's going on with the speed. I think you're right, Mombot, that it is potentially an LD. You just don't see a lot of 18s and 19s in kids who aren't GT! But an LD would hold her back.

Keep pushing. I don't think you've figured her out yet. I think there's more to understand here. I certainly wouldn't call her "not GT." I just think that's wrong!

Keep in mind too though that lots of kids could probably complete the Block Design patterns with unlimited time. That higher score should be considered more carefully than the 18 in Matrix Reasoning.

Sure. Good point. But I still suspect there's more going on there than the test shows. I mean, her processing speed is quite low, so it's clear that there's something more going on there. At least that's how it looks to me.

I was also noticing that comparatively low processing speed, along with the low score in coding. I think you have good reason to pursue a neuropsych workup. I think she looks like a good candidate for the 2e kid who never gets recognized due to being smart enough to cover up her LDs and LD enough to appear "not gifted". Parents know their children best, and if you have always felt she is gifted, then chances are high that she is.

Mombot if you are close to the Chicagoland area and go the nueropsych route feel free to pm for names. We have three excellent children's hospitals here.

My youngest does have the IQ numbers that would qualify her for gifted programs. She doesn't present at school the way they expect, though. So even with an IQ test that is way higher than their minimum score, the teacher attempted to bar her from gifted programming last year. It's a long story but because of the law as is, they can use whatever parameters they define worthy to identify for gifted programming, so realistically, they can deny her access in the future.

Things are going *okay* right now, but we know there is a great chance we will homeschool her at some point. She was recently diagnosed with a learning disability, even though it doesn't appear she has one based on IQ scores.

I can't remember if you thought homeschooling was an option or not, my brain is foggy, lack of sleep, lately.

I guess I'm saying, please don't have a mini-crisis.
There are some options available. It took me a long time to accept homeschooling as an option, I didn't think I was capable of doing it....but now I see it as a real option and I'm only slighly nervous about it.

I'm a firm believer that if you can keep a semi-clear mind, don't give up, keep searching for a good solution, you will find one.

Neato

Thank you again for the supportive posts. I really appreciate the insight that all of you have shared.

re: neuropsych eval - the evaluator recommended more testing by the school - achievement and cognitive - to further define those areas of weakness (the fluency, processing speed). To have a neuropsych eval, is a doctor's referral needed? I imagine with my dd's history (she was a preemie born at 28.5 weeks gestation) that it's not a request that would be completely out of the realm of possibility. But what can the neuropsych eval do that the school wouldn't be able to give, given thorough testing? When we meet with the SpEd team sometime in the next couple of weeks, would I share with them the possibility that my dd might be seen by a neuropsych?

My husband was at a playground build at the school this weekend and the principal talked to him about the letter of referral I sent to her on Friday and she just shook her head and said that she didn't know why homework was such a problem for our dd. From this brief exchange, it seems to me that even with the SpEd referral we initiated last year, she doesn't understand why we are still pursuing something...anything...for our dd.

CFK - and you can add me to the other list where you have someone with a high IQ (143) and is an underachiever.

I've always suspected that I possess some underlying LD and this underlying but not quite defined or diagnosed issue (attention, auditory processing...) seems to run in my family (my mom, my brother). Because of this, it's important to me that my own dd get the assistance she needs. Not to fulfill what went unfulfilled in myself, but because if there is an issue, which testing shows and which I have suspected since she was a toddler, I want it addressed so my dd won't have to struggle so hard and her self-esteem won't suffer. It already seems to be taking a beating - she cried the other night when doing her homework because she felt she was so slow, "the biggest slow-poke in the world" and she went on to say that I "should abandon (her) for another child who wasn't so slow."

Neato - I can't say homeschooling is an option for us. We can't even get her to do her homework or let us help her so we can't see her doing schoolwork with us either, lol.

Mombot, yes the school could do much of the testing, but keep in mind that the school's goal is often to prove that a child does NOT need services. In many cases you get more insight from an outsight professional.