Finger Licken' Good Points, CFK! (DS and DH are big KFC fans.)
Even when things went badly for my DS11 in school, he often learned important lessons that I wouldn't have figured out how to provide him with an opportunity to learn. He started playing Trombone, as a 4th grader, and loved the chance to work with a group of kids. Unfortunatly, for us, the emotional price tag at the public school was too high, so now we have the pain in the pocket at private school.

Wow are you lucky that the one who want's to grade leap and bound is the older of the two! Nice how that worked out. Have you bumped into any ideas for "gap year" programs for your DS10 when he finishes high school level education? There is a email list about early college on the YSP program that might be helpful for you if you can get in to YSP. One of our local friends does college classes and middle and high school classes all mixed together. Yes, his mom and grandma do lots of the driving, but he seems happy. When his mom was introducing herself to a teen, I overheard her say, "So, what gradeS are you in?" as naturally as you could want. I've also heard stories of a boy who went to Community College during Middle school, and then started High School with his age mates, taking a lot of electives. He didn't say so, but I got the distinct impression that he had become intersted in exploring dating. I think that what is so wonderful about parenting these kids it that once they set their mind to something...step back and enjoy the view.

Smiles,
Trinity

We've gone the private school route also. We're fortunate that we found a gifted school that allows acceleration and doesn't buy into the age/grade lockstep. Unfortunately it only goes through the 10th grade, though the school tells me they can accomodate him thouugh 12th grade level material. I've told DS10 that when he finishes the tenth grade at the school, at whatever age, then he can try homeschooling. We would most likely try the EPGY online high school. We're fortunate that our employer pays for private schooling, even online, but only from K to 12. I'm not anxious to "officially" graduate him from high school early and lose this tremendous benefit.

Wow - that sounds wonderful! I'll bet that they will even let him take EPGY online high school from the school building so he can still do art and music during the day. Terrific that your employer pays for private schooling - I wish more did. Some high schools are more rigerous than community college classes. Perhaps by the time your DS10 gets through the 10th grade some new opportunities and interests will have developed.

Interesting that your private school only goes up to 10th grade, is that common in your area? I've never seen it.
Smiles,
Trin

Yes, the private school tuition was a deciding factor in accepting the job. Most of the schools here seem to go all the way to 12th or stop at 8th grade. I don't know why this school does it this way, unless it's because they are small and don't have the resources to offer AP/IB classes. I'd really prefer that he stay in high school for several years and take a wide assortment of classes, than enter college extra early. He's not one of those kids with an overwhelming focus and passion for any one subject. He needs the time to develop his interests.

These types of questions would probably be better received from a member. I have emailed questions to the DI before, and their reply is simply that they have determined that these are the kids they want to serve. They don't really give me an explanation.

Cathy

Need advice on combatting the socialization argument for radical grade acceleration!!

As I mentioned in my earlier post, we went ahead and gave our soon to be 5 year old a second achievement test (the first was 6 months ago)- we gave him the WIAT II - (the psychologist's suggestion)
The test results more than supported our intuition that our child needs to be in at least second grade to be academically challenged.
We feel comfortable making most all arguments accept the social ones although he is a social animal and is comfortable in most all social situations.

We hear so much about bullying. Is this a real concern?
Our son has been playing on the chess circuit for the past 6 months and spends lots of time with older children. They are all so respectful and kind to him. Is this just chess kids? Am I naive on this one?

Has anyone had their child accelerated academically but taken out of the classroom when doing sports, music, etc with other children?

What are some practical ways to address the handwriting issue? Has anyone successfully convinced the school to let the child type?

Well then...I'll give it a try, but keep in mind this is just MY personal opinion.

For the GAI, I feel that they are possibly letting the dust settle somewhat on that one. There is still controversy about whether or not this is more meaningful than the full scale, and what the significance of WMI and PSI are. And you CAN get accepted on the individual scores of VCI and PRI. In the case where the child is lopsided, an extremely PG child will most likely test higher in one of these.

My own son had a somewhat disappointing WISC-IV experience and did not qualify on that test. However, in hindsight I don't think his "lower" scores should have been what got him accepted. I know of too many children with similar scores that are NOT what Davidson is looking for (in my opinion)! Fortunately my son had other test measures that showed his precocity.

That said, in MY opinion, the WISC-IV is just not a great test for these kids. In that regard, I think Davidson is doing the best they can in a less than ideal situation.

As for age...I really think it's hard to get the achievement part straight for a younger child. I really don't have experience with the WPPSI, but it seems to make sense that scores could be a little inflated by good home life, etc. But achievement absolutely can be inflated, and inflated fast with a little extra work. A high scoring child is surely bright, gifted, etc, but NOT necessarily precocious....from early achievement testing alone anyway.

Are these Davidson's reasons? I have no idea! I do know they get a huge number of applicants each month, and what they offer does seem more geared for "school age".

I do feel a teeny tiny bit defensive of the Davidsons in general, as my son is a recipient of their extreme generosity. We are very grateful for their services! I realized DS was different from a very early age, but I'm not sure DYS would have been the "answer" back then.

I know it's frustrating to be so close to help. My son's first full scale just missed their 99.9th cutoff. I didn't understand the test enough at the time to realize he had a qualifying "index", because it wasn't on their list. I felt extreme frustration in having such a need, and feeling like he just missed a critical level to actually have that need met. Hang in there! As your child grows, you will find more resources and places to get advice/help/etc, and perhaps one of those will be the DYS program!

HTH!

Zia's mom,

When I initially approached the school for DS10's first grade skip, I followed a format I found in an article on the Hoagies site, something like "Squib got skipped". I think it is still on the site - look under acceleration. It gives examples of how to compile data about your son and also cites articles you can copy and use about the benefits of acceleration, including social ones. I researched and added a few more articles of my own. There are several by Mirace Gross that are really good. I also bought the Iowa Acceleration manual and included those scores. Everything gets put in a nice easy to read folder for administrative personnel that don't have any background knowledge of giftedness, or your son, or a lot of time to read.

That being said, I think you will have much more success in accelerating your son if you only try for one grade at a time. When that is a success, you'll probably find that the school is more willing to do it again down the road. Our best ammunition for the second skip was showing how well he did, both socially and academically, after the first one.

Hi Zia's Mom,
So many ideas in one little post. I'll try to take them all in, but you may want to repost several smaller ideas, ok?

Need advice on combatting the socialization argument for radical grade acceleration!!

***Is anyone making the socialization argument at this time? It’s pretty clear from M. Gross’s work that for kids who need radicle acceleration, that RA is their only hope of normal, for the individual child, socialization. PG kids have an “alternate path of development” – normal, but different from the norm. ((That’s a Trinity-ism!)) They are many ages at the same time.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, we went ahead and gave our soon to be 5 year old a second achievement test (the first was 6 months ago)- we gave him the WIAT II - (the psychologist's suggestion)
The test results more than supported our intuition that our child needs to be in at least second grade to be academically challenged.

***What a relief to have the numbers and your experience of your child, “line up.” I hope you are going ahead with your application to YSP.

We feel comfortable making most all arguments accept the social ones although he is a social animal and is comfortable in most all social situations.

***I think that the best position to take is that you are the parents, and will continue to monitor his social growth, and be responsible for that part of his life. Really, for many, many, PG children, if their educational needs aren’t being met, then they are going to be too unhappy to do much social growth. So it’s not that you are sacrificing one for the other, it’s that you are trying to ensure that your son’s educational needs are met in school so that he can “be himself” and play after school. Really we are all humans, trying to make decisions that will have outcomes that none of us will be in control of. All we can do is deal with the matters at hand, and be willing to change if corrections are needed. Still you are the parents, and have to be the ones to be responsible for his Character Development.

We hear so much about bullying. Is this a real concern?

***Bullying can happen anywhere, with any group of people. I have no reason to think that it would be better or worse with his agemates, age+1 year kids, age+2 year kids, teachers, parents, sibling… What makes the difference is how the other humans deal with it. Bullying doesn’t have to be tolerated, and I would look for a school with a clear and successful bullying policy.
As an aside – My DS complains that his school is full of “goody2shoes” who won’t let kids get away with playing games during class, or anything else, and that they hand out detention for stupid stuff, like wearing white socks on “Formal Dress Friday” when they are supposed to wear dark socks. I was so happy to hear this. I hope it continues. We cheered last year when he came home with his first detention notification, and it was for wearing white socks on Friday. My kid needs to understand that no shenanigans will be tolerated, and he needs clear guidance on what the rules are. I hope this helps create an atmosphere were Bullying is going to be discouraged. The best way to know is to ask a few kids who attend the school.



Our son has been playing on the chess circuit for the past 6 months and spends lots of time with older children. They are all so respectful and kind to him. Is this just chess kids? Am I naive on this one?

***Yes, It would be Naïve to judge one group of kids based on another group.

Has anyone had their child accelerated academically but taken out of the classroom when doing sports, music, etc with other children?

***Certainly it’s a good idea to do afterschool sports and/or religious or scouts with agemates. Many kids have their “specials” with agemates, or whatever group best fits their schedule and their skills. Karen Roger’s Re-forming Gifted Education is the must read for the nuts and bolts of acceleration. Think “dual-citizenship” or “multiple radical subject accelerations.”

What are some practical ways to address the handwriting issue? Has anyone successfully convinced the school to let the child type?

***This is a wonderful topic, and deserves it’s own thread. I’ll start one, ok?
I’m so excited for you. I agree with Dottie, that it doesn’t have to be right now, or all at once. The best is to have a school community that is willing to “get it right” for your child. In the end, homeschooling, or partial homeschooling may still be the best alternative.

Love and More Love,
Trinity

And I totally missed Zia's post while making my own response to Cathy's. This is just as well, as Trinity and CFK did a wonderful job. I'll jump in again if anything else comes to mind.

I agree with CFK about "one skip at a time", especially fresh out of the starting gate. We tried for 2 more years of math, on top of 2 current years (4 total just for math) and the school staff went absolutely crazy. Had I not had so much personal interest in this child (mine!), their response would have been comical. It eventually worked out in the end, but I learned a lesson in the process....and that is to take baby steps forward, but always be thinking about the next baby step.

We've fortunately never had any bullying to date. I have to confess, the most negative comments presently seem to come from DS8's 12 year old sister, LOL! I think she's very threatened by the idea of him coming to the middle school this year. But we are using this tension for good, and echoing her comments on proper middle school dress and behavior, LOL!