Yeah, IQ distribution may resemble a normal curve in the total population but I doubt it does within the social circle of many GT individuals. I had the (obvious) realization the other day that there may be kids a standard deviation *below* 100 in the classroom (or more? less? I have no idea.) Somehow this thought had not occurred to me before. (OK, Grinity, perhaps I should get out more.)

Maybe fMRI or something similar will be useful someday in identification. After all, if it really is a difference in *how* one thinks, you'd think it would show up in brain activity. But then, that would really be overkill. All the lists I've seen have quirks, they probably all have a limited shelf life.

I find these comments more interesting "between the lines" than Ruf's book.

And I have to agree with gratified3 that fastidiousness at the table doesn't make sense to me. DD3 can use her fork very well, many times she refuses as a challenge.

DD3 is a perfect Ruf example of a baby/toddler that ended interaction and attention, just for the stimulation but then she gives anecdotes about a toddler playing by themselves for hours, absorbed in some activity. How do I spell contraction in terms?

Working as suggested, I figured level 4. Maybe level 3, definitely not lower. The strange thing, when I went through Level 5 list, I could see many things, but the parental anecdotes were a few months ahead of my memory of events. So I don'get her perception of how she created the list. I also agree that physical development has to assist the verbal and early talking astounds me. What I did notice with DD is that when she did hit a milestone, she was away to the races.

I wish she would define the non linear and auditory differnces. I think that would be more interesting.

Ren

I think the "table manners" criteria can somehow be traced back to me, so let me clarify what possibly started that. My kids weren't exactly perfect little eaters by any stretch, but they were "regular people" much sooner than many of my friends' kids. And while some other clearly GT kids were less physically developed in those early years, that was ONE area where my kids seemed well ahead of your more typical (crawling, walking, etc) milestones.

I've had the same experience with my kids. DD9 didn't read until she was 4 (almost 5), but then she was reading chapter books within a year. She was talking a lot way before her first birthday, too.

DD6 was much the same as DD9, except she read earlier and walked much earlier (10 months versus 12 for DD9).

DS2 went from crawling to running at 13 months and from barely talking to full sentences at 18 months.

Off to the races is right!

Okay, let me throw my hat in!

DD7-PG didn't walk until 14 months. I see a lot of Ruf's level 4 and 5 stuff with her. She did question Santa by 3. BTW another friend's child who is PG point blank looked at the fireplace and stated, no way Santa was going to fit down that. And I think she was 2, if I remember correctly.

DD5-HG walked at 9 months, running at 10 months, mostly running away!!!!!!
Could read sentences before DD7 but then didn't want to read til 5yr 5mo and has quickly just about caught up to where sister was at this particular age.

So,,,,I don't know.

They're all different.

Incog

But that's not a contradiction. It's just that some kids are extroverts and need stimulation--like your DD--and some kids are introverts and can happily entertain themselves--like my DS. What distinguishes the HG+ child is the *extremity*, the *intensity* of their need for alone time and/or stimulation. Your DD didn't merely like stimulation, she NEEDED it, and LOTS of it, all the time! My DS didn't just like to be alone sometimes, he preferred to entertain himself for HOURS with his puzzles, even though he was just a young toddler and wasn't "supposed" to have that kind of LOOOOOOONG attention span for anything! Neither sort of intensity is the norm for kids!

The developmental paths everyone is describing for their kids are, indeed, all different. (Ruf doesn't argue that all HG+ kids are exactly the same!) But all these developmental paths have two very important things in common: they're all significantly different from the norm, and they all demonstrate an incredible intensity!

What I think Ruf does is to try to make clearer what constitutes "significantly different" and "incredible intensity."

Okay, I will stop jumping in, I promise. Sorry!

K-

P.S. Just as an aside, the neat eating thing works like a charm with DS6--he actually got *booed* at his 1st birthday party because he was perfectly neat about eating his cake! Can you imagine booing a 1yo at his own BD?!?

DS7 did not, would not, and still pretty much won't, play by himself. He constantly wanted to talk and to learn information through conversation, books and tv (tv only after age 2). And I was constantly criticized by friends and teachers for it - e.g., he's too reliant on you, you need to ignore him, he needs to learn to play by himself, I see what the problem is - you're too nice to him, etc. And I, being ignorant as I was, listened to them. He'd just sit there no matter how long it took. And the principal at his last school told me not to google the answers to his questions. He needs to learn how to research by going to the library and looking up the answers. "Kids are getting too much instant gratification; they need to learn patience." (and that was respect to a five year old)

And he never believed in Santa until we rigged a convincing display with evidence a couple of years ago that I still feel guilty about. He asked for the truth right before Christmas this year and I asked if really wanted to know or just believe. He chose believe, but he knows.

Needless to say, I don't know where he fits on Ruf levels, and there is that 2E element...

I can't remember if I heard this directly from her (I saw her speak last summer) or if I read it somewhere, but I thought/think Dr. Ruf was planning on a level 6, for 2E's. I love that it sounds more impressive than the level 5, LOL!

And Kriston, that's horrible! Boo-ing a 1 year old? It reminds me of my mother. She looked at my pregnant belly after our first ultrasound, and said (to my belly) "You were supposed to be a boy". Um...okay.

They are all different! (I meant the kids, but the adults are pretty different too!)

Krison, I think you'll relate to this. DD5 is like, the pied piper with other children. It's not uncommon to see her running on the playground with, like, 10 children running and skipping along after her. HOWEVER, at some point she gets so overstimulated, she abuptly dismisses all of them!
So she looks like this highly social child, but she also chooses to spend hours in her room with her figurines creating elaborate story lines. Even at 5 she babbles along non-stop, creating different scenarios, voices etc.
Our highly respected Psyd. tester assures me she is NOT crazy, Phew!

Incog

LOL, 'Neato! I do love that!

That's totally me, you're right. I'm highly social...until I'm OVER IT. It's like I run out of social "juice" and have to retire to quiet.

I think this is pretty normal for GT people. I read somewhere (Lisa Rivero's "Homeschooling the Gifted Child," I think) that GT people tend not to fit as neatly into the intro/extrovert boxes: we're VERY social when we're social and we're locking ourselves in our rooms talking to ourselves for hours when we want to be alone.

Still, it's all about the extremes. What's more extreme than BOTH extremely extreme extremes in the same person?

<grin>