I'd love some suggestions for DS, who can understand almost anything read to him (e.g., A Briefer History of Time, the original Swiss Family Robinson), but doesn't understand what he reads unless it is very short and very simple. He says that's why he doesn't like to read - too much time decoding (he calls it spelling), and I think he doesn't see the forest for the trees.

I think this is similar to the working memory issue re: writing. His teachers did a fabulous job breaking down the writing this year and he's really come along. Even claims he likes it.

It's why I signed him up for EPGY language arts. I know he'll read sentences, but paragraphs with a lot of words on the page are tougher.

Also, he has a reading tutor who is supposed to be doing Wilson with him, but stopped b/c he doesn't like it. Definitely need some help. I'll talk to his teachers and the tutor, but I figure someone here must have some ideas. At least he is now willing to read. Maybe we should just keep to easier books?

He loves computer games, so if you have any suggestions...


Thanks.

Forgive my completely un-gifted memory, but does your son have an exceptionality? And how old is he? Also, what books can, and will, he read right now? That might help with some suggestions.

(I often lose track of posters' children and histories - yet another age-related disability!)

Thanks, CFK. He is 2E, but exactly what is unclear. He is 7, and his LD per the school is the discrepancy between his IQ and his achievement scores (except for all verbal areas). The evaluation disclosed difficulty with writing (due to working memory, fine motor, and executive function issues) and no (or poor) phonics decoding system. He fatigued very easily, but has increased his focus and endurance in the last few months. May or may not be ADD inattentive variety.

CFK, forgot to mention, he can whip through early readers - level 2 and 3, but has refused to read a real chapter book. He picked one out for school, and we tried to read it today. He had a hard time with it - and maybe it's because he's been sick, but I've heard the same thing from him before. I believe per lexile level the book was considered fourth grade (Bunnicula), and it's what his second grade teachers picked out for him. Maybe it was too much of a leap to start with that book as his first chapter book, but he really wanted to read it. We ended up reading the whole thing to him to help his comprehension when he reads it in school next week.

He plans to read Invention of Hugo Cabret - and I'm sure he will. Fewer words per page, black letters on a clean white page, lots of graphics to put the relatively brief story in context.

(I'm kind of clueless about what levels books are - what would a level 2 or 3 be?) (And I have never heard of Bunnicula!)

Maybe the 4th grade readers are too much to start with for him if you want to build up his reading stamina? Will he read things that are "young" for him? My middle son was never interested in kid's books, even before he could read older level material. He preferred that I read a higher level book to him then him reading a Dr. Seuss by himself. I read to him until he was able to read approximately middle school level material, then he started reading by himself. One of the first books he read alone was The Red Badge of Courage. He has never read, or wanted to read, anything like the Fudge books or Frog and Toad, etc. And he never wanted me to read those kind of books to him. Maybe yours is the same?

If I recall, one of the series that was a good transition to chapter books for my youngest, who is much more "kid-like", was the Geronimo Stilton books. They have a lot of cartoon pictures and the font sizes and colors change to kind of break up the monotony of black on white. Maybe those would work for yours?

I think the "Magic Treehouse" series is 2nd grade, if that helps.

Random thought here, but have you considered any type of visual problems, or had any rule out testing done in that area? It's really touch and go for when achievement starts to "take off" for such highly gifted kids, but that's something that could have an impact. There are both real problems to consider as well as perfectly normal developmental "delays" in the visual area. I know my own son couldn't/wouldn't read what I called "adult font" until a certain moment in time, even though he could read the individual words and/or sentences.

Did they do anything like that when he was first tested? I'm at a loss as to what tests should be considered, or even where to start, despite DD11 having visual issues that impacted her own early reading. I'm hoping others will jump in. Have we already discussed this before with you? I know it's come up....I just can't remember exactly where.

Nate the Great series.

For my suggestion how about Cam Jansen? They have a young Cam series and an older chapter book series. If you got him interested in the younger series he might move more easily to the older series??

I will comment on the visual problems Dottie mentioned. I have told this before so for those of you who are yawning, just skip this paragraph. My DS appeared to be very gifted from a very young age but when he got to school it just didn't play out like I thought it would. He didn't like to read at all until 2nd grade and then when he did read (Goosebumps was THE favorite) he would skip words and reverse words (saw for was, etc) and be reading on one line and then go down to the next in the middle of the line. He also has problems with handwriting and was writing up in the air or below the line and reversed letters. Well after having teacher after teacher tell me it was developmental and he would grow out of it we discovered that it was really a visual perception/tracking problem. I won't go into the whole story here but if you want to know you can pm me. Anyway, he is in therapy now and is showing much improvement. So if this sounds like something that could be going on, it could be worth investigating. I wish I had figured all this out earlier and saved many, many hours of frustration for him and me.

Thank you, everyone!

I will ask his OT about visual tracking. I suggested he use an index card below the line so he doesn't get lost, but he refused.

I think the font, color illustrations and type of paper do have something to do with it. He doesn't like newsprint books like Magic Treehouse. He read Nate the Great fluently and with feeling, making different voices for all the characters in 15 minutes straight, then had a complete meltdown at the end saying he hates to read and can't do it. Turns out he hadn't eaten lunch that day, but it was weird - and sort of frightening.

I think it's partly self-confidence for him. He reads beautifully when he agrees to do it. Maybe he'll be like CFK's son and he'll just be fluent all of a sudden. Problem is that I'm nervous he won't read at all. But in more rational moments, I realize he loves books, has always loved books, and will learn to read. Right?

Thanks for all the great hints. EandCmom, I will pm you. We have a fabulous OT, and I'll speak to her about the visual tracking. As I recall, it wasn't a problem in either of her evaluations, in kindergarten or first grade.

I downloaded Reading Blaster the other night, which he enjoys. He has no problem reading those books because there are not many words on the page. (And level 1 and 2 are simple.)

Oh, and when we did the evaluation last year, I also brought him to a pediatric ophthamologist (where's spell check when I need it?!!) and she said his vision was fine.

Oh, and on the "late bloomer" front, DD11 had all kinds of early reading issues. Now granted, she's probably officially (remediated? stealth?) dyslexic, and also has some minor visual issues....but for what it's worth now, in 5th (10/11) she is reading like a fiend! At 6/7 and even 8, I never thought I'd see the day that I didn't have to all but hog tie her to get her required daily reading done.

Oh, we also had some early success with colored overlays. If nothing else, they are fun to experiment with.

colored overlays

What are they? I'm all for experimenting. And thanks for the encouragement.

They are just that....see through sheets of colored plastics. They work miracles for certain types of dyslexics. We ordered the whole kit of sample colors, let me see if I can find a link. But you can usually find some basic shades of blue, yellow and red at any educational type supply store. DD swore by the red-orange for a season.

http://www.dyslexiacure.com/purchase.htm

A friend found ones that were like little rulers, to help be a guide as well, but I don't know that I can find a link for those. The above link will at least share the thinking.

Oh, this link has the ruler things. Neither of these places is where we ordered ours from, but it's been a few years. These will give you a general idea.

http://www.crossboweducation.com/Eye_Level_Reading_Ruler.htm

Thank you. Btw, i'm sitting here reading Ruf's book and she says not letting kids watch TV shows on reading delays reading. Well, we had absolutely no TV until age 2, per AAP guidelines, and like you, my only book was the what to expect series. Which I loved by the way. I was just concerned about DS meeting the milestones. Never occurred to me to focus on the fact that he was meeting most things very early. Who knew? I knew nothing about kids. Even had to have a lesson on disper-changing in the hospital! LOL!

I'll check out those links when I get back on the computer. Thank you!

My kids were all reading fluently before age three, and none of them watched a lot of tv. My current wee one didn't watch anything before two, except Signing Time dvds. She did know many signs and the whole ASL alphabet before turning two.

If I think on it more, my earliest reader started watching Sesame Street in the mornings when I was getting his brother ready for school when he was about 11 months. That was all he watched for the first two years, and it's funny I hadn't thought about it much before. I was stricter with the other kids, but guiltily resorted to the "electronic babysitter" when in a pinch. School mornings were tough with my oldest, who has AS. We didn't know why transitions were so hard for him at the time.

Sorry, that doesn't look right. I wanted to say that I don't think kids NEED to have tv to become early readers, but that maybe it does help speed them on their way. It goes against my very limited tv stance to say so, but I want to be honest about my opinion.

I think they're sponges, so any input--even from TV--is absorbed.

Better than TV, generally, is human interaction. But I think there's a big exception: if you're not expecting your babies to read yet, you don't know to teach them as if they can read. TV makes no assumptions about reading level, as people do, and therefore kids might learn things from TV that they wouldn't learn from us...because we aren't teaching them that stuff yet.

I haven't had coffee yet, so I'm not sure if I'm making sense...

All true, and DS didn't watch any tv until 2, and never watched Sesame Street (he didn't like it). After 2, he watched some shows on Noggin (liked that channel b/c it had no commercials), but never an academic show. His favorite thing to watch at 2 was River Dance - he had a bit of a crush on Jean Butler!

My son liked the "old" Sesame St. It changed quite a bit when he was small and I really only recall his being a fan as a young toddler.

My current toddler has only seen it once or twice. It's not what it used to be.

Well, I gained more understanding of the reading problem today. DS told me he doesn't like to read because he can't read the books that interest him "like science, novels, adventure stories and myteries.". That gives me some more guidance. He seems to be enjoying reading blaster on the computer, so I hope that the combo of that and EPGY (where he only has to read a few sentences at the most per screen), with possibly renewed attempts at the Wilson method with his tutor will move him in the right direction. He is no longer objecting to writing, so I hope more advanced reading is to follow. Thanks for the comments, everyone.

Have you tried the easy reader type science books? We have some about various polar animals that we got through scholastic on about level 3. Also, what about Magic School Bus science books? They have easier ones and chapter books for that series. And mysteries could be Cam Jansen or Hank the Cow Dog?? I'm all for going with whatever they are interested in for reading. My DS loves Hardy Boys right now but he went through a period where he would read nothing but Goosebumps. Maybe if you can find a series he likes it will inspire him. I'm so glad he's no longer objecting to writing - maybe that will come for my DS one of these days!!

Can't read them because the vocab is too hard? or something else?

I really like the real science for kids books, they might do the trick. It's meant for 4th-6th grade and DD7 is loving it. It does have complex material, just explained for kids, has pictures to break up the text, I've been really impressed.

Here's the link to the publisher:

http://www.gravitaspublications.com/index.html

Incog

It's weird - if I read it to him, he understands the vocabulary, but if he has to sound out words he doesn't recognize, he doesn't understand what he reads. It's like he's so caught up with the details of sounding out the words that he forgets what they mean. Literally can't see the forest for the trees. However, I noticed that he doesn't have that problem on easy books, so maybe we'll keep reading easy books and ratchet it up a notch book by book. (And EandCmom, the problem with the level 3 science books for him is that he is so "well-read" - at least well-read to - that the scholastic science books are too simple for him in terms of content. But I think you're right, I need to find something that peaks his interest so that he'll at least try to read it. Maybe we'll try Goosebumps.)

Have you tried having him scan the page for words he doesn't know first and sound them out/look them up before he reads anything? Then he could read more seamlessly. This sort of pre-reading is something I recommended for my college students, so it's a useful skill for anyone to learn.

If he has trouble remembering the words, he could even mark them on the page (if you write in books at your house) or write the words down on a separate sheet of paper.

Maybe helpful, I hope?

Another thought: have you looked books up on this site?

http://www.lexile.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?view=ed&tabindex=6&tabid=18#1

Find-a-book here: http://www.lexile.com/findabook/StudentInfo.aspx

I don't know if I'm ahead or behind the curve on Lexiles as a measure of how challenging a book is to read, so I won't explain it here. If you don't know what the heck they are, let me know and I'll be happy to explain. But it might help you find some books that are both interesting and not too challenging.

K-

I love the lexile database and use it all the time. Another chart that is helpful to look at when thinking about lexiles is this one on the scholastic website. It converts lexile numbers to DRA's and grade levels (and scholastic letter levels - which is what DS's classroom uses)

http://teacher.scholastic.com/products/classroombooks/browse_level.asp

My DS got the reading fluency by playing Gameboy games that required reading, such a Pokemon, and Monster Ranchers. There are a few on the YSP list who always come forward that their sons learned this way.

It makes sense to me that as a child's working memory is occupied with sounding the word out, comprehension will drop - what doesn't drop is the urge to get information at their readiness level - so it can be a tough transition. Think of a child learning to type (ahaaa, a sweet thought) - there will be a tricky time where they need to practice, but won't really be able to do much with the skill, yet....

It may help to let your son know that reading will get more useful, and that practice is required, but the end is worth it.

Smiles,
Grinity

Thank you. All of this is helpful. Probably the Gameboy hint is the most useful for me. I need to find something fun that involves reading in manageable little bites. I've been using EPGY to some success for that (but it doesn't qualify as fun). I've tried comics and graphic novels, but he has no interest. So we'll keep plugging along. I like the idea of sounding out the troublesome words before actually reading the page, and will try that, too. And keep looking for easier books that are interesting to DS.

And somehow get him to actually read something in book form every night. Maybe by choosing books that are easier than his level to start out and build confidence.

During our family interview today at the gt school, it was suggested that DS6 needs to improve his spelling. He still spells phonetically. Any suggestions? I am bad at spelling because I have relied on Word to correct my mistakes for way too many years.

Questions,
I still have 'questions' about you son's visual system. How is he at catching a ball? Moving through space? there is s specialty called 'behavioral optometry' which did find troubles for my 'late reading' son, which I didn't get treatment for because I thought it was 'snake oil.' - and because DS was older and stubburner at the time.

Limited working memory will also contribute to his frustrations, so I would be double-triple sure, to keep providing him with audio books of various topics that appeal to him: Drag him to the library, go to the adult or young adult 'non-fiction' section, and let him choose a few to try. You can allow him to listen at a particular time together (in the car, while you cook), or on his own.

I would also look for something like the Guiness Book of world records for him to read silently. Although my son is a very good reader now (tested at 12th grade, is that possible?)my DS loves little bits of information. Apparently there is something about this generation that wants soundbites in the first place. I got Schott's Almanac 2007 for him through Interlibrary loan and although the wish I could protect him from the adult content, he was, as predicted in heaven. It was like flypaper for him.

I also wonder about silent reading. For a kid with working memory issues, they are likely to enjoy silent reading on a much higher level than they could reading aloud. Just assume that if their head is buried in their, then they are doing ok. I remember my DS waiting for his OT appointment (age 7) silently reading 'Artimis Fowel' and actually losing a whole page when he turned the page one time. I pointed it out and he denied it. I read for another 4 chapter before declaring the book 'too yucky' (I happen to agree) but my point is that it's ok to let him read harder fiction even if he misses 30% of it, if he seems to be enjoying himself. (Sort of reminds me how when the child isn't bottle fed you just can't know how many ounces of milk he got, but there are ways, like wet diapers, that show indirectly) Of course you may still work on reading aloud, but like the distinction between handwriting and composition, remember to let there be a distinction between Reading (aloud) and Reading (silently, for fun).

Could he have read Bunnicula silently?

Anyway, the key to 2E kids is to spend about twice as much energy feeding the gifts as one does with helping the weaknesses. Please don't let the school mentality affect your vision.

I hope I'm on the right track here - appologies if I've missed the mark, ok?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I like Renaissance Learning for picking out books. If you use the advanced search feature you can get lists of books based on reading level and specify fiction/nonfiction, areas of interest, etc. When GS8 is increasing reading level we pick books with lower AR points; in general, lower points mean shorter books. Difficult, but short books don't overwhelm the child as longer books of the same level.
Renaissance Learning

A couple thoughts...

I definately second the Geronimo Stilton recomendation. Great book with alot of extra white and fun colors and fonts on the page so it doesn't look like alot of reading

Second, depending on your feelings on screen time, many games involve alot of reading. Even if it isn't "Educational" software it can build interest and ability in reading. An ebook reader might work too since you can adjust the font and words per page on many of them.

We have also found that picking out a long book like the complete Chronicles of Narnia allows us to read a chapter a night but all of us take turns reading. DS started reading a few sentences and then passed the book off to one of us. Now it is hard to get him to trade off at the end of a page. We started with larger font books and worked down to about normal.

Good Luck

I have to 3rd the Geronimo Stilton books. These are the first chapter books DS would willingly read independantly. The format is so fun and the chapter lengths are very manageable.

For a while, DS7 had the reading level, but not the stamina to read page after page of small print.

Interesting.
The catching ball thing, moving through space... my oldest is not the best in those areas.

My oldest enjoys the stories, and doesn't get 'lost' in decoding, BUT she is not good at decoding. She just wants to read.

Is your ds visual-spatial at all? Highly visual? I'm beginning to suspect my oldest is... She is also highly wiggly when reading. I've seen with longer reading, she doesn't like it... I also have to wonder about tracking sometimes, b/c she can lose her place... and with pages that have more words, she struggles... I think the print is smaller, and can be harder to track/follow. Something that is short... usually has bigger print and is easier to track.

Considering she's had oral motor issues and 'clumsy' as a child.. it wouldn't surprise me if there were tracking issues as well...

Anyway, a few things to look into.

One experiment... can you try typing a page out on the computer and see how he does reading it if you increase the size of the print? Or maybe color code each line a different color? Then see how well he reads that.

Tammy

Hi, haven't been around, but did check on this thread. Good points. DS can catch, but he's not the best. But he's coming along. And I think he is visual-spatial, too.

In any event, he seems willing to read more and I'm taking advantage of it. His choice the other day was the Star Wars Visual Dictionary - brief blurbs under each picture. The advanced vocabulary doesn't bother him - he has as good a chance of sounding out long words as he does short. The big issue for him is too many words on a page, and basic phonics - knowing how to pronounce, tion, ous, ai, etc. That will come with practice. And I ordered a Geronimo Stilton book or two, and he spent a long time looking at them in the car the other day, so I think we're onto something.

And I'm thinking it's time to try those Scooby Doo mystery games again, which have clues to be read. I see that he is reading short blurbs here and there, so he's definitely moving in the right direction. And he won't complain about reading as much.

He clearly loses his place, but he's defensive about it. I tried to get him to read using an index card, but he refused. And his OT has one of those colored plastic cards, which he wouldn't use either. I forgot to ask her about visual tracking. I know he was tested for visual perception and visual motor activiity, but don't know if either of these are related to visual tracking (he did great on the first and within normal limits on the second - so if so, no visual tracking problems)

And he has always loved being read to. His endurance is a lot greater than ours in that area. We just have to make sure that we continue to do it, and I need to find some more books to read to him.

Good advice. Thanks, everyone!

kimck,
Thank you for this information. I have been looking for a chart like this for ages.

Summer

DS is reading! Thanks, everyone. Those Geronimo Stilton books seem to have made the difference in his willingness to read. Now it should just flow.

Also, today for the first time, his OT had him try an EZ Reader highlighter card, and it definitely helps. She doesn't think he has visual tracking problems, as he only gets lost from the end of one line to the beginning of another, but she said she's not the one to make that determination. If he continues to have problems, I'll pursue that, too.

Thanks again! This is a big year for DS - he seems to be getting over both the reading and writing hump. I was afraid it would never happen.

AWESOME!!!!!

Here's hoping he follows in DD11's footsteps, as she's been quite the reading fiend lately, after a similar "slow" start.

Thank you, Dottie. You wrote Awesome just like it would be written in a Geronimo Stilton book, LOL! I need to play with full reply one of these days. Thank you!

ROFL! That's a lucky side bonus for me. That wasn't as easy as it looks, but I copied a similar exclamation that I made on another thread, teeheehee! The full screen does have some fun options for those with time to kill (yeah, who has that?)

I'm glad to hear your DS is making progress, Questions! How is he feeling about reading? Is he also enjoying it more now?

questions - I'm so glad your son is loving Geronimo Stilton books! I think those stories are really clever and fun. They have some interesting vocabulary too. Those books defintely were the bridge from short books to chapter books for us! Hooray!

questions - that is great news! I really think finding something they really enjoy can be such a great push to help them read. For my DS it was Goosebumps - he devoured them and his reading level sky rocketed. Sounds like your DS has found his "thing" and now his reading will really take off. YEA!!!

Thanks again, everyone. Yes, he claims he likes reading now. I'll believe it when he reads and doesn't ask every few seconds "has it been twenty minutes yet?" LOL!

LOL!

questions - Hi there (forgive me if you know this already, I'm new here, having just discovered this site) - I just wanted to add something on the vision angle. My dd, 6 y.o., saw a pediatric opthamologist for a regular vision checkup and he found nothing wrong with her eyes. Later that month, we happened to do testing at the Gifted Development Center and they suggested we look at vision again, in part because some of her responses on block design were nearly correct but skewed. We went to a behavioral optometrist and lo and behold she has an eye tracking problem. We are now about halfway through vision therapy and she's finally reading at grade level (1st grade, though I'm hoping for still more improvement, more in accordance with her supposed potential). If you are still considering the vision issue, you can find the right kind of optometrist at http://www.covd.org/ . The testing for us was altogether different than the quick check of eye tracking done by the ped opthamologist - a different kind of appointment, actually.

Incidentally, the vision exercises were much easier for dd to do after she completed an intensive program of OT for SPD. The OT thought this would happen, but the improvement was amazing (I wasn't holding my breath. The vision therapist was blown away at the difference). Our OT noticed the eye tracking issue, but if she hadn't I doubt I would have taken her word for it that it wasn't there. The vision homework is a substantial commitment (around 1/2 hr x 5 days per week, plus one hour weekly with the therapist) and I'm counting down the weeks left.

Now I have to go back and re-read this interesting thread since I am looking for tips on building dd's confidence with reading - at this point I think she's capable of more than she's willing to try...


OK, now that I have re-read about half of this, I wanted to point out that getting lost from the end of one line to the beginning of another indeed could possibly be due to an eye tracking problem. I remember the optometrist specifically mentioning that issue.

snowgirl - my ds is also doing visual tracking therapy right now and we found our therapist on the website mentioned above. He has also shown great improvement and I am very excited about this. He was 9 before we discovered what was wrong so I am very happy you found help at a younger age. I think that would have saved us alot of grief.

I too am looking forward to when we're done. He retested a couple of weeks ago and they think we're about half way there.

I'm glad things are working out for you too!

Snowgirl,

Thanks so much for that link. I will search for someone locally and have it checked out. We checked out everything else, may as well be thorough. Meanwhile, that EZ reader highlighting card seems to be helping.

Thanks again!