That is an interesting concept. As I look back, I loved those "kids" and the years I spent with them. I'm sure that I would have a wonderful time with "their" kids.

I went to the Indiana G/T conference yesterday and got an entirely new perspective on the ID requirement. The net will have to be fairly broad to meet the guidelines of the new law. This is going to be a bigger challenge than I even thought. I can't wait to pass this on to the administration. (Although I like how it is going to direct us.)

Hopefully, in 2009, there will be some grant money that can be used in the classrooms. This year, the money has been used to allow teachers to embark on individual initiatives. The good thing is that the teachers involved want to be doing what they are. The bad part is that it is actually not impacting very many kids. In my building we have a first grade activity in writing, a sixth grade robotics program, an intermediate grade "space" study, and then I will take a group of intermediate students to the Indiana Dunes Learning Center for 3 days and 2 nights this summer. (I took a group up there last year and it was fabulous.) I am not sure that I would have done the same thing, but my principal made that request. The feedback from the kids and parents was very positive.

I am just not sure that our teachers are in the right mindset yet to realize that this is not just another attempt at a program. This is a law that is finally giving support to a group of kids that has been ignored. It is very likely that we are going to have several argue that we don't have that many kids that "fit the bill." We often are so focused on the state test for all that we do and the fact that was brought out at yesterday's conference on ID was that 66% of the high ability kids do not get a PASS+( the highest level) on the Language Arts section and 33% do not have that achievement on the math portion of the ISTEP+. (It might have been the reverse with those two subjects; I will have to check my notes. However, the impact is the same.)

I would like to say that my community is all willing to pay for additional programming, but I don't know that most can afford that. Our free and reduced lunch rate has climbed to well over 30%, so immediately we would leave out several kids with needs.

You have given me things to think about again, though. I do know that there will be many more questions as this program takes hold. I really appreciate the parental aspect of what all of you have shared. Too many times we lose sight of the parents in the role of education.

J_D, I didn't mean to imply you never made the children reply in complete sentences. The example you gave of copying a sentence, then underlining a noun or verb is a perfect example of something to drive a child to frustration; just writing down the word intended to be identified is a good solution.

I have a pet peeve about the average adult not being able to communicate in clear, concise sentences in writing. I'm a computer programmer/analyst, and sometimes when I'm trying to define what is being requested I wonder if we're even speaking the same language. And reading a sentence constructed with extremely poor grammar is worse than fingernails on a chalkboard, to me. What good is knowledge if we are not able to communicate it to others?

Why do you think so many high ability kids do not have high achievement scores on the ISTEP? What level of information does the average classroom curriculum present?

Hi Ducky!

I'm a late comer to this thread, but wanted to throw my 2 cents in anyway. Forgive me for being disjointed, as I can't keep all the posts in my mind at once.

I live in PA, where GT is mandated, but not enforced. That said, we require per mandate that things be in place to find GT kids, inform parents, etc. We take legal credit for having blurbs in handbooks, and don't even try to find kids until 2nd grade, despite state law starting in K.

Our current (school specific) focus on finding the kids is relatively new, even though our law is not. With NCLB, state testing is required starting in 3rd (as you well know!) We also test 1st and 2nd using the Stanford (SAT-10).

We now have a relatively new matrix system that screens kids in early 2nd based primarily on their SAT-10's from 1st grade. Based on those scores, we also look at teacher recommendations, and if the kid makes it that far, they get a parent survey. We then screen on the K-BIT, and with scores above about 125 we full test on the WISC-IV, admitting only those kids that full scale at 130+. I'm not sure what our SAT cutoffs are, but as you can see, the kids won't be provided services regardless unless their IQ test tops 130.

That said, a parent has the legal right at any time to request full testing, despite lower SAT scores or no SAT scores at all (K/1st student). Our mandate is not ideal, but it is more than most states have. I have mixed feelings about some of the rigid cutoffs, having seen some close candidates turned down, but it is important to have limits somewhere. I just wish there was some way to legislate common sense into the equation.

For me personally, the biggest problem comes after the identification. We offer a pullout "program" as a standard course of action. The program has come a long way, and is currently a nice program all said and done. However, the kids miss regular class time rather than replace inappropriate class time, and even if it's a good fit (as it is for my girls), it's not ideal because of that. For HG+ kids like my son, it just barely scratches the surface of their needs.

Here's a link to our legal-ese if you are interested.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/022/chapter16/chap16toc.html

Hi JD!
This caught my eye. I wonder what is going on!
a) too bored to do well at age-mate level?
b) how are high ability kids defined?
c) really bad test?
d) really poor preperation?

How do your 4th graders do? I'll bet that proper motivation really makes a difference.

In the long run, clustering, and teaching the teachers how to pretest and compact will help lots of kids - looks like you will be the coach to inspire the teachers. Exciting challenges ahead!

((Although I'm pretty sure that your talents would be best used in that mini-school or afterschool program.))

Smiles,
Grinity

Grintity,
To be honest, I am not sure why. I would guess that a lot of the kids have no desire to put forth the effort on the test. Not that I think this is the answer, but the motivation used to come from the fact that one had to attend summer school or repeat the grade if they did not pass. That motivation is gone.

I am not quite sure how the high ability were identified in that study, but for anyone speaking of the state test in a poor light when they have that direct connection blew my mind.

The test is about the norm as far as achievement tests go, except the applied skills that I mentioned earlier (which you can see on the state site). My brightest often have to think about them, so I know that they require some thinking.

I think that the preparation has something to do with it, but I also know that motivation is a key. Most of my students fell right where I would expect with the exception of one and he was SICK while he was taking it that week and would not give in to feeling bad.

Yes, challenges. I love a good one and this may be the KING!!!

Okay, I like the mini-school and after school program. We will have to really explore that option. (However, I will have to give up my current after school teaching position with the Title I math program. I really like that too.)

Well, I am off to my other after school love..... a high school athletic event. This is where I get to reconnect with former students!!!